bathroom floor heat automation?

[wkearney99]

I've got a Warm Up electric floor heat system in the master bathroom.  The single downside to their thermostat is it lacks on on-board battery to keep the clock updated.  Thus I've got to reset the darned thing any time Pepco's power dips... again.  
 
I did a bit of searching an didn't come across anything that'd allow controlling this from an automation system.  I did see NuHeat is going to be releasing a WiFi-equipped unit; in Spring 2014 (it's not yet shipping).
 
Any other solutions out there?

 

[lleo]

Not sure how you are using this, i.e. you have it on set schedule, or schedule it every night for the next day, but I have an electric towel warmer in our master bath, and I included this in the Radio RA2 system using an RRD-8ANS and a relay. For now, the biggest advantage is that when leaving the house, it gets turned off as part of the "leaving" scene. I could also have it on a time-clock event, but changing that is somewhat ridgid.
When I get up in the morning, I push the button on my first trip to the bathroom. By the time I get my coffee and get ready for shower, the towels are nicely warm. In summer time, we typically push the button after showering to dry the towels.
It is on my list of automation tasks to link it with my wake-up call and CQC.
 
Can you explain a bit more how your thermostat is working, does it have temp sensing, low/medium/high setting, timer? Assuming is low-voltage? Your options for integrating with what you (will) have like ELK or CQC are there...

 

[wkearney99]

This is floor heat I'm talking about here, not a towel warmer.
 
I do have a towel warmer, it's a Mister Steam model W219C.  It's on a Leviton VPT24 timer now.  Which is actually not a bad timer, in that it supports programming up to 50 events on it.  But like anything else crammed into a single gang faceplate, the programming UI is a hassle.  It's 110v (200W at 1.7A).  I'm considering replacing the VPT24 with an RRS-8ANS switch.   I believe the warmer has it's own internal thermostat, as there's nothing adjustable on it.  The timer just powers it on/off according to a schedule.  There are lots of times where that schedule does not effectively coincide with need.
 
It is possible to manually enable it but it does not automatically turn off again until it hits the next programming cycle. Tangentially, I just noticed my Honeywell VisionPro thermostats now have a way to set a timer for any override.  That way you can just bump the temperature in a space for a certain amount of time and not have to worry about it running too long.  Having a 'Warm Towel' button on a RA2 keypad would be handy, along with 3rd party control.
 
The floor heat thermostat is programmed on a schedule M-F, S&S and has an away feature.  Trouble is it loses the time if power goes out.  Annoying and a stupid design limitation, I know.
 
It has as connection for the floor temp and also has a built-in air temp sensor.  I don't use the air temp sensor as the unit it tucked into the toilet closet.  In theory that could also be used to allow the floor mat to also heat the air in the space.  I don't need nor want that, so it's disabled in the thermostat's settings.
 
It's not low-voltage, it's 110V (as are most systems of this type).  It has it's own GFCI features for safety.  
 
What it doesn't have is any way to integrate with an automation system.  It's programmed schedules and manual operation only, through it's touchscreen.  No WiFi, contact closures or IR.  Thus the question asked...

 

[JimS]

I have a 220V floor heat system and the included thermostat is pretty basic.  Would be nice to be able to automate it.  It has a thermistor in the floor for temperature.  I put in a junction box for power in a back room where I thought I might someday add some automation control.  Would just need to measure the temperature some way or I think I could set the temp in the dumb thermostat and just turn power on and off when desired. 
 
If your main issue is the timeclock and schedules you may be able to just switch the power to the thermostat.  Since it is 110V that gives lots of options.  Main thing would be access to the power feed - maybe at the power panel. 

 

[wkearney99]

Well, supposedly the NuHeat wifi thermostat coming out will be able to control other systems.  Don't know if that means 220V or not.  But I had a NuHeat setup in the old house, which was 110v and used an in-floor thermistor.  The new setup is made by Warm-Up but also uses 110v and a thermistor.  The only downside I'm seeing would be the new unit is a single gang portrait oriented install.  The WarmUp unit is single gang, but landscape.  

 

[lleo]

I realize that I was not clear. I brought up the example with the towel warmer as mine came with a dedicated timer and scheduler device, branded the same as the towel warmer. The online reviews slammed the interface and complained about lack of accurancy, probably due to the same issue as your floor device, fluctuation in the line voltage. Based on this, I decided to forgo the timer and integrated it with RA2. We are using it manually, but just as easily could be on M-F/S-S time-clock schedule. My biggest concern is to have things we are using while home off, when away, and this is achieved through RA2.
 
Your floor warmer is a bit more complicated, but if you could find a connection to be simply switched on/off the possibilities are endless.
Surely a dedicated device may come out that is net connected, and provide you with schedule based on the forecasted temperature for your zip, but another account, possibly subscription instead of set and forget.
 
Did you try contacting the manufacturer? Some devices that work off the mains are quite accurate, maybe they have an improved version. Your floor warmer thermostat is connected to line voltage but surely operates on low voltage, maybe was designed for 50Hz markets and 60Hz throws it off.
 
You can try to put the circuit the warmer is on an on-line rectifier/ups, to see if it makes a difference, although if pulls into the many KW range, you may have problem finding a suitable supply.

 

[wkearney99]

Yeah, if the box weren't embedded in an exterior wall that's full of sprayed foam I'd entertain ideas regarding using a relay or something to otherwise interrupt what the thermostat wants to send.  But then that'd likely throw the thermostat for a loop and disrupt it's energy tracking features.  I don't use 'em but I'm sure there's some logic in there that'd go haywire if it sensed trying to activate the mat and never seeing a temp change.
 
So I guess I'm going to hold out for that NuHeat thermostat.  Worst case I'll just have to rejigger the drywall and box to handle the portrait orientation. 

 

[sanders2222]

I have a similar 110V tile heater thermostat that I want to automate too.  My thought was to set the thermostat on manual (always on) to a desired setting.  Then control power to the thermostat with an in-line controller. 
    
I used this method to control power to a transformer for all my low voltage outdoor lighting and automation gives me much more flexibility than just timers.
 
The only problem is finding a controller that can handle the wattage that the floor tile heater must draw. So another option may be to use relay controller and hook it to the thermistor wire connections at the thermostat. When the relay is closed, the power to the floor should be off.  Open the relay then the reading from the thermistor should control the heat.

 

[mghan]

Check out the SunStat Pro 500670 - it has a low voltage home automation input.  Note that this unit's (or any other manufacturer's) thermistor/temp sensor will very likely be incompatible with your existing thermostat.  So you'll need to replace the temp sensor which can be very problematic with an installed floor.
 
Mike

 

[Neurorad]

I have NuHeat stats, with thermistors, for my heated floor(s).
 

 
There is a contact input on the back, but it's not supported by NuHeat.  It's a rebranded Aube, of some sort.  Power outages do not affect the timeclock, AFAIK.  Looks like this NTG stat has been discontinued, but you may look to Aube for the same device - not sure if Aube discontinued as well.  Aube website still shows what looks like the NTG http://www.aubetech.com/products/list.php?noLangue=2&noFamille=1&app=6
 
IIRC, NuHeat had networked thermostats already (not wifi - communicate with other stats), but lacked contact closure inputs.  That one is the SOLO stat.
 
How about a hardwired UPS mounted next to the breaker box?

 

[Neurorad]

This Aube TH115 is 120V, advertises 'no re-programming after power outage', and has a 'remote input (telephone controller required, whatever that means):  http://www.aubetech.com/products/produitsDetails.php?noProduit=132&noLangue=2
 
Edit - I think this is the rebranded NTG
 

http://www.aubetech.com/manuel/2/TH115-A-F-AF-024T-15S.pdf

 

[wkearney99]

Interesting note on the contact closure for a NuHeat/Aube.  The old unit looked like that picture.  But it's in a box "somewhere".  That and there's the lack of an easy way to run new wire to the outside spray foamed wall location.  But I'll keep the idea in mind.
 
I hadn't considered the hardwired UPS idea.  Trouble is I'd need a pretty stout unit to handle cutting in if loss occurred while the mat was being actively heated.  I can't recall exactly but I believe we're pushing the max that a 110v setup will support.  

 

[JimS]

If you have a place you can insert a UPS then you should be able to put a relay in the same spot. and interrupt power going to the tstat.  The relay doesn't have to go in the box where the thermostat is.  Your concern with confusing the tstat seems to be related to interrupting the output but shouldn't happen interrupting the input (except for the clock issue).  .  Just set the tstat to manual, always on and control the power input.  What am I missing?

 

[Neurorad]

I suspect running a new cable through foam using glass rods is easier than you think. You may have to dig out some behind the stat, though. New foam to fill in the excavation?