Best Options For a Secured HA Platform?

The availability of hacking equipment is also a big factor. When the WEP vulnerability was discovered (and hacking tools released), every computer, notebook, tablet and smartphone became a potential hacking tool. The payoff was also a universally sought after goal: access to the internet; thus the number of potential hackers and their tools are so widespread. 
 
It's completely different here. You'll need specialized tool to sniff and manipulate zwave packets, be in the right spot at the right time since the range is very short and transmissions are quite seldom, and the payoff...? Entry to your premise?
 
So I agree with the above posters... if someone goes as far as attempting to wirelessly hack your kwikset lock to gain entry to your premise, then you have a much bigger problem than any lock can help you with.
 
LeoS said:
The availability of hacking equipment is also a big factor. When the WEP vulnerability was discovered (and hacking tools released), every computer, notebook, tablet and smartphone became a potential hacking tool. The payoff was also a universally sought after goal: access to the internet; thus the number of potential hackers and their tools are so widespread. 
 
It's completely different here. You'll need specialized tool to sniff and manipulate zwave packets, be in the right spot at the right time since the range is very short and transmissions are quite seldom, and the payoff...? Entry to your premise?
 
So I agree with the above posters... if someone goes as far as attempting to wirelessly hack your kwikset lock to gain entry to your premise, then you have a much bigger problem than any lock can help you with.
 
There's a reason all large commercial systems are hardwired...

The only hope of hacking is the spoofing you note, and it's a lot easier to kick in a door at the residential level.
 
moleman said:
Thanks for the replies. No doubt the average crook could smash a window easier than hacking the locks, but what if you were trying to incorporate you alarm into your HA (lock doors, alarm set)? Having the alarm on the same layer would undoubtably insecure. A lot of my HA goals are actually geared towards security as opposed to pure convience.  
 
Your security system should be an independent subsystem with a hardwired panel reporting to a central monitoring center. You can receive alerts from it for your HA system to act on, or if you choose to allow it, allow the HA system to arm/disarm the alarm. But it's important to remember that the security system is independent of the HA system... 
 
ChrisCicc said:
There's a reason all large commercial systems are hardwired...
Hmmm.. I wonder if all the hotel owners in Vegas know this?  The Aria and Mandalay Bay and other Vegas hotels had more than 20,000 rooms with Zigbee locks (and no wires) before 2010.  The Aria hotel alone today has 136,000 Zigbee nodes for locks, thermostats, locks, lights, the mini bar, you name it.
 
You may want to look at this company's site. http://www.vingcardelsafe.com
You make systems for hotels, apartments, hospitals, etc. Marriot is using them for many of their locks, and these locks also have RFID which can communicate with your iPhone or Android phone to open your room door. The things that are in your hotel room or hospital room that are monitored and controlled is rising, and these are all wireless. They also have to be very secure. The world is changing.
 
ano said:
Hmmm.. I wonder if all the hotel owners in Vegas know this?  The Aria and Mandalay Bay and other Vegas hotels had more than 20,000 rooms with Zigbee locks (and no wires) before 2010.  The Aria hotel alone today has 136,000 Zigbee nodes for locks, thermostats, locks, lights, the mini bar, you name it.
 
You may want to look at this company's site. http://www.vingcardelsafe.com
You make systems for hotels, apartments, hospitals, etc. Marriot is using them for many of their locks, and these locks also have RFID which can communicate with your iPhone or Android phone to open your room door. The things that are in your hotel room or hospital room that are monitored and controlled is rising, and these are all wireless. They also have to be very secure. The world is changing.
 
True, and I'm familiar with it. But that's not what I'm referring to. I can assure you Mandalay Bay does not have ZigBee on their casino floor ;) The risk of hacking versus the risk of jamming are on entirely different levels. Guest room access is low risk. Casino/vault/etc is high risk and is hardwired.

Source: in the time before starting CastleOS, I worked for a security and surveillance company that installed systems for banks, casinos, and others things I shouldn't list here :)

Home automation into hotels is a really awesome new market. Marriott is also moving in that direction across the board. I expect all are or will follow suit... 
 
Welcome to Cocoontech moleman! 
 
I've been lurking for a long time
 
You have been around and reading so you know about this forum.
 
Can anyone recommend options along these lines?
 
Keep reading the forum posts here.
 
The blend of security and automation for the the residential home is changing mostly too it is related to what that individual considers or knows about the granular details of those grey areas not seen whether in firmware or software.
 
It's really about what it is you want and today the choices are endless (well almost).  There are no perfect methodologies of automation today.
 
There are mass appeals for certain branded hardware and software depending on how much presence it has or appears to have. 
 
the-gossips_paint_465h.jpg

 
Geez one tweet whether it is true or not can even start a war today....say it ain't so Joe ....
 
Those folks here that come from the commercial side or pushing their wares have to typically come up with a "one size fits all" methodology of security / automation which is sometimes difficult and sometimes easy for that residential home; depending on an individual's view points/knowledgebase of hardware and software regarding their own stuff.  WAF comes to mind here.
 
That too can get very propietary depending on you and what you see fitting with the rest of the occupants in your home.
 
The biggest unknown for me is what hardware to go with. My biggest problem with all the main offerings like UPB, Insteon, Zwave, Zigbee, etc is they offer no encryption or 128 WEP encryption (which is trivial to crack).
 
Here I play with all of it and use primarily UPB for my light switches.  I utilize one piece of software to program or configure the UPB lights and really ever give it a though relating to a what if someone/thing decided to commandeer my lighting. 
 
There are a variety of folks right here on the forum that use one or the other or many of the offerings you mentioned above.  They know their stuff and are happy with their stuff. (offerings).  Some after some time are looking to upchuck their stuff and try something new.  It is sometimes costly to do this after primary investments in a per switch and electrical installation times however many switches you have automated in your home.  Thinking the average automated switch costs between some $50 USD to $200 USD or more plus your cost of installation (whether you do it yourself or pay someone to do it for you).
 
I played around with X10 in previous homes for fun and it was OK, but I'm going to be at this house for a long time and want to scale up with a serious HA solution over time.
 
Serious can be related to your gathering of a knowledgebase relating to what it is you want to do and utilize and spend money and resources on.  That could be learning to do LV/HV electrical or writing your own automation code or writing a new encryption algorithm or learning some software or new OS.  Everybody is unique as mentioned a few times here on the forum.  What fits one individual doesn't always fit another.   Just reading as you are doing today; you see some folks say this and that is easy because they learned over time whatever it is that they do utilize for automation.  The postings here do sometimes get very emotional and argumentive  It really is indicative of a passion of IT/ automation and whatever. 
 
The computer and home automation are just tools, a machine that you control and not the other way around. 
 
I am a bit of skeptic relating to the use of RF; mostly relating the basic nature of what RF is in general (well magical a bit).  Geez we haven't yet learned how to bend light yet.  The substrate of RF is dependent on what we cannot control (the atmosphere, the sun, cement walls, the air we breath so forth and so on) easily.
 
The etymology of "radio" or "radiotelegraphy" reveals that it was called "wireless telegraphy", which was shortened to "wireless" in Britain. The prefix radio- in the sense of wireless transmission, was first recorded in the word radioconductor, a description provided by the French physicist Édouard Branly in 1897. It is based on the verb to radiate (in Latin "radius" means "spoke of a wheel, beam of light, ray").
 
The hardware (software in firmware) managing my security and automation remains in the house and is not dependant on any outside resources / software.  
 
I can shut off or physically disconnect the internet from my home and the automation / security will continue to run just fine. 
 
Today (and for many years now) utilize software automation as an addendum to my automation in firmware providing me more automation play with what I never touch.   Well that too exists and works fine without any dependencies outside of the home.
 
With both hardware and software I do have the choice of means of watching or control inside or outside of the home.
 
I do have a different view now of what it is I personally utilize today relating to automation or security.
 
The lighting, HVAC control, irrigation, et al is really here just considered the "heartbeat" of the day to day activities of the home.  It just takes care of the home with little or no interaction from me.  I used to "watch" that interaction in the late 1990's / early 2000's and it was fun and it did get old really fast.  Most of the time it was relating to see if I could do it rather than the requirement of needing to do it. 
 
Where there is a means of whatever networking / software automation topology/substrate/meat you utilize today of access; there is also a means of circumvention of same said stuff; well unless you come up with your own unique methodologies privy to only yourself and never share.  (geez what happens though if you get hit by a bus and cease to exist).
 
But really what does it matter to you unless you are dependent of those inter hardware/software/outside of your home pieces.  The failure of the illumination of a light bulb primarily will be a lack of electricity to your home or maybe someone/thing hacking in to your smart electrical meter.  You can if you want back up your home's electricity with a large UPS and generator if you want which is many times cost prohibitive and doesn't really provide that ROI on a light bulb.  You can manage all of your hardware today via your network whether that is wired or wireless.  That said relating to just the "network" you can get a bit more life after death when you back up the power on your switches / access points.  Really what does it buy you when you have a power failure?
 
Do the best you can do for yourself and enjoy the use after it's all done (well here it's never done but I enjoy doing it cuz it's become a hobby).
 
ChrisCicc said:
True, and I'm familiar with it. But that's not what I'm referring to. I can assure you Mandalay Bay does not have ZigBee on their casino floor ;) The risk of hacking versus the risk of jamming are on entirely different levels. Guest room access is low risk. Casino/vault/etc is high risk and is hardwired.
You do realize that more than 80 million homes in the US have Zigbee smartmeters that are read remotely. Most of these Smartmeters also have the ability to shut off your power should you not pay your bill.  I would call that a pretty high security application that has to be resistant to hacking.
 
So the majority of homes in the U.S.  Have you ever read about someone's home being hacked and their power being shut off?  I think that proves that the security is at least "pretty good" and what makes you think a wire is so secure? Many times the data going across a wire is far less secure than wireless. 
 
ano said:
You do realize that more than 80 million homes in the US have Zigbee smartmeters that are read remotely. Most of these Smartmeters also have the ability to shut off your power should you not pay your bill.  I would call that a pretty high security application that has to be resistant to hacking.
 
So the majority of homes in the U.S.  Have you ever read about someone's home being hacked and their power being shut off?  I think that proves that the security is at least "pretty good" and what makes you think a wire is so secure? Many times the data going across a wire is far less secure than wireless. 
 
What I said...
 
 

ChrisCicc said:
The risk of hacking versus the risk of jamming are on entirely different levels. Guest room access is low risk.
 
I never said they were hackable, but they do have their weaknesses. A jammed power meter will not shut off power to the home, that's not the risk I'm referring to.

There are many different levels of security, and there are many nuances. What's appropriate for one application may be wholly inappropriate to what on the surface appears to be a very similar application.
 
NeverDie said:
So, at the end of the day, is the better cylinder worth it or not?
 
 
In my own house, I did install high security locks many years ago.  Even though the likelihood of someone trying to pick the lock is low, I felt the better resistance to brute force attacks and drilling of the cylinder was worth the modest additional cost.

I also reinforced the strike plates and door frames to prevent simply kicking in the door.  If you don't do that, then the high security locks aren't worth much.

As others have posted, if someone really wants to break in, they will find a way.  All you can do is slow them down.  That's where I look to the alarm system as the next line of defense.
   
I recall one incident some years ago where the burglars used a sawzall to cut a new doorway into the wall of the house.  At that point, locks don't matter.  

Different people have different opinions on what level of security they are willing to accept and pay for.  Some want to reduce the possibility of anyone getting into the house as much as possible.  Others are willing to live with it being less difficult for someone to enter, but then have them detected by the alarm system.  Many tradeoffs to be made between risks, cost and comfort level.
 
RAL said:
In my own house, I did install high security locks many years ago.  Even though the likelihood of someone trying to pick the lock is low, I felt the better resistance to brute force attacks and drilling of the cylinder was worth the modest additional cost.

I also reinforced the strike plates and door frames to prevent simply kicking in the door.  If you don't do that, then the high security locks aren't worth much.

As others have posted, if someone really wants to break in, they will find a way.  All you can do is slow them down.  That's where I look to the alarm system as the next line of defense.
   
I recall one incident some years ago where the burglars used a sawzall to cut a new doorway into the wall of the house.  At that point, locks don't matter.  

Different people have different opinions on what level of security they are willing to accept and pay for.  Some want to reduce the possibility of anyone getting into the house as much as possible.  Others are willing to live with it being less difficult for someone to enter, but then have them detected by the alarm system.  Many tradeoffs to be made between risks, cost and comfort level.
In my neighborhood it seems that burglars most prefer to rob cars/houses that aren't even locked.  I imagine they could kick in a door or break a window just about anywhere, but for whatever reason it seems they'd rather not.   i.e. Here it appears that burglaries are predominantly opportunistic, not targeted.
 
NeverDie said:
In my neighborhood it seems that burglars most prefer to rob cars/houses that aren't even locked.  I imagine they could kick in a door or break a window just about anywhere, but for whatever reason it seems they'd rather not.   i.e. Here it appears that burglaries are predominantly opportunistic, not targeted.
 
That appears to be very common.  Some data from about 5 years ago in CA.
 
32.00%  Through unlocked window or door
26.64%  Forced entry by impacts
24.02%  Prying or jimmying
6.79%    Use of pass key or picking the lock
5.10%    Entry attempted, but failed
5.45%    Other or unknown
 
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