Can I use an Elk KPAS to open the garage door?

[Sacedog]

Well, I know the basic answer to this is yes, assuming that I have it set up as a regular keypad. Here is what I want to do.

My garage doors are currently connected to relays/outputs on the Elk, and I can operate them via F keys from other keypads. I want to put a KPAS around the side of the house to operate the garage door (instead of the battery operated one that came with the garage door).

What I DON'T want is for this KPAS to act like a normal keypad. In other words, I do not want someone to be able to arm/disarm the system with this keypad.

Is there a way to do this by putting this keypad in a different zone (can it talk to the outputs in a different zone)?

Hopefully this makes sense to someone.

 

[jaysonc]

Sacedog,

I do what you are referring to.

I made the garage a separate area in the ELK and disabled all usercods from arming/disarming the garage area.

Any keypad in any area has access to all zones and outputs. Even keypad indicators in different areas are available. Open up ELK-RP and start looking at the settings for individual user codes and keypads. You will see a lot of flexibility.

 

[tmbrown97]

my only concern with this was the consideration that there's really no security around protecting the keypad. Not only is your databus now exposed outside your house, but one could short out the power supply knocking out the keypads and motions. If I were wanting to get into someone's house and they had one, I'd be tempted to pump 120V into the wires with hopes of frying the circuit completely instead of triggering a trouble condition.

Maybe it's not that big of a deal but it was certainly a concern to me. At least the garage-door version is isolated and battery powered so it doesn't hook into your system in any way.

 

[jaysonc]

Oops, I read Spacedogs original post incorrectly. My ELK-KPAS is inside of my garage at my back door.

I agree with ToddB and would also not recommend putting an ELK-KPAS outside of the house. Even my installation location inside the garage is probably marginal from this perspective.

--
Jayson

 

[Sacedog]

Well, the KPAS would be on a different area, so you could not use it to disarm the main security zone, right?

Do people seriously believe that some thief is going to take the time to find an AC outlet nearby, take out the keypad, and try to short out the system? Sounds more like a scene out of Sneakers to me. I also have one of my cameras near the proposed area, which is clearly visable.

So, I would like to hear others opinion on what they think about this setup. If you think it is a security risk, please explain why.

 

[TXFlatLander]

Have you thought about using a wired garage keypad? A quick google search turned up this. It has a transformer and wired connection to the GDO.

 

[Monk]

Well, the KPAS would be on a different area, so you could not use it to disarm the main security zone, right?

Do people seriously believe that some thief is going to take the time to find an AC outlet nearby, take out the keypad, and try to short out the system? Sounds more like a scene out of Sneakers to me. I also have one of my cameras near the proposed area, which is clearly visable.

So, I would like to hear others opinion on what they think about this setup. If you think it is a security risk, please explain why.

Even though it is controlling a different area, the (as noted earlier) M1's bus is exposed - I don't know if either of these could be true, and I'm also not willing to try it -
What if someone hit it with a stun gun?
What if someone connected the power wires (+ and -) and or the databus wires together? (trouble condition - inability to communicate with zones on expander cards?)
It is unlikely anyone would do it but why would you want to take a chance.

 

[gatchel]

Do people seriously believe that some thief is going to take the time to find an AC outlet nearby, take out the keypad, and try to short out the system? Sounds more like a scene out of Sneakers to me. I also have one of my cameras near the proposed area, which is clearly visable.

So, I would like to hear others opinion on what they think about this setup. If you think it is a security risk, please explain why.

It is a security risk. You just have to determine how much of a risk it is to you.

Would I do it? No.

If you really wanted to use a keypad you could use an IEI or Corby keypad on the exterior and have it trip a relay internally to the house and the relay connect to a zone input. You would be limited to how many relay outputs the keypad has. You still are vulnerable to a break in just not as vulnerable to someone shorting out your whole data bus or system supply.

If you consider a guy (Criminal) who knows the technical aspects of security, anything is possible.

 

[paulw11]

Hi,

You could also use a weigand keypad connected to the weigand input on existing keypad (A weigand device can connect via 100ft or more of cat 5 with no problems). You could also use an M1-KAM if it wasn't convenient to get to an existing keypad.

The advantage of this approach is that you aren't putting your data bus "outside" and the keypad is designed for outdoor use - so weather won't be a problem.

You could use a proximity reader or combined PIN pad/proximity reader for flexibility (at additional cost )

Paul

 

[tmbrown97]

Look - for years I relied on the fact that crooks are idiots. A flashing light in my car showing it's got an alarm protected me from most dumb-f** thefts. Unfortunately, last year - even with a high-end alarm in my car, someone decided to test it - and they found that I'm annoyed by shock sensors (they broke the window and climbed in).

Today i have an M1XOVR in my garage and it does scare me - but the trouble zones will set me off. It's definitely the biggest vulnerability in my system if you consider it against a monitored system. Luckily I'm now getting e-mail alerts of any status change!

 

[tmbrown97]

Look - for years I relied on the fact that crooks are idiots. A flashing light in my car showing it's got an alarm protected me from most dumb-f** thefts. Unfortunately, last year - even with a high-end alarm in my car, someone decided to test it - and they found that I'm annoyed by shock sensors (they broke the window and climbed in).

Today i have an M1XOVR in my garage and it does scare me - but the trouble zones will set me off. It's definitely the biggest vulnerability in my system if you consider it against a monitored system. Luckily I'm now getting e-mail alerts of any status change!

BTW, these crooks did $6K worth of damage to steal $3K worth of gear - unfortunately, the car hasn't been the same since - a year later.

 

[Sacedog]

You could also use a weigand keypad connected to the weigand input on existing keypad (A weigand device can connect via 100ft or more of cat 5 with no problems). You could also use an M1-KAM if it wasn't convenient to get to an existing keypad.

This approach is interesting. So if someone decides to short out the weigand reader, would it just short out the keypad that is was connected to, even though the keypad is connected to the data bus?

Also, how does this get programmed? In other words, can I set up different codes that will open different outputs?

The wired garage door opener keypad would be nice, but I have three different roll-up garage doors, in 3 different areas (connected to the same building, but physically seperate). I didn't run wire from the openers to the outside location. I could probably tie together the wire that I did run back in the place where they terminate though.