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Can someone double check new Elk install?

drvnbysound said:
Honeywell does offer keyfobs. However, their fobs don't have the 2-way capability to provide you with feedback from the system (e.g. system status; armed, disarmed). Here's a link to the Honeywell ones: https://www.security.honeywell.com/hsc/products/intruder-detection-systems/wireless/remote-control/ademco/300524.html
 
Here's another link that shows all of the Honeywell 5800 series wireless products: https://www.security.honeywell.com/hsc/products/intruder-detection-systems/wireless/index.html
Feedback from the system can be easily gained in other ways. I like to stick a bicolored LED up in a soffit by where the end user drives in/out.
 
I can't see the benefit of pigeonholing a system with Elk's RF. They market a good game with the bidirectional feature and perceived value and performance, but does an end user really notice the difference? Elk has 2 unique devices (PIR with the LED light and tandem RF smokes) and less detector variety.
 

JerseyMarv

New Member
drvnbysound said:
 
Not necessarily. I'd say you have a couple of options... 1) use the existing Cat5 wire to connect to the XIN and KP2 directly via the splicing method I mentioned above or 2) use the Cat5 to install a garage mounted DBH... then connect both the XIN and KP2 to the DBH via Cat5 wiring.
 
In both cases, you only need (1) homerun Cat5 cable.
 
Having said that, the XIN is a very low power draw device and I wouldn't necessarily worry a whole lot about it's power draw there in the garage... but certainly use the power worksheet to calculate.
I've been slowly digging through the manual but I usually need a 'big picture' overview before I can really see how the pieces fit together. You guys are helping tremendously in that regard.
 
Let me clarify something for myself.
 
I can have a DBH AT the panel, for ease of connecting devices, and I can either connect that to a DBH at the XIN or hardwire the XIN?
 
So:
M1 -> DBH @M1 -> cat5e -> DBH -> XIN and KP2
or
M1 -> DBH @M1 -> cat5e -> XIN and KP2 hardwired
 
I'm oversimplifying this because I don't want to inadvertently box myself into a corner. In the future, when it comes time to do the second floor of the house, I may just land another XIN in the upstairs closet (where there is a convenient cat5e drop) and then shoot the alarm wires through the attic, dropping as needed. This would greatly simplify wiring for all the upstairs access points.
 
Is it possible for me to have a DBH at the panel (which could ultimately receive two keypads and two XIN's), and a DBH at the garage XIN? What kind of limitations would I experience going this route?
 

JerseyMarv

New Member
DELInstallations said:
Feedback from the system can be easily gained in other ways. I like to stick a bicolored LED up in a soffit by where the end user drives in/out.
 
I can't see the benefit of pigeonholing a system with Elk's RF. They market a good game with the bidirectional feature and perceived value and performance, but does an end user really notice the difference? Elk has 2 unique devices (PIR with the LED light and tandem RF smokes) and less detector variety.
That was my thoughts as well. Coming from the ISY I could definitely work in a feedback part of the system, and would most likely need to in a glaring fashion so my wife remembers to arm/disarm. I was hesitant about boxing myself in with Elk since their offerings are A: more expensive and B: not as prevalent as other manufactures. You've given me the confidence to spread my planning out.
 

mikefamig

Senior Member
You need to understand that the DBH is nothing more than a convenient way to connect and disconnect devices from the data bus.
In doing so it also doubles the length of you wire runs.
 
For arguments sake lets use the green twisted pair as an example. The green twisted pair in cable1 carries dataA and dataB from the the M1 to the DBH. Then the green twisted pair in cable2 carries dataA and dataB from the DBH to  device1. Then the green twisted pair in cable3 carries dataA and dataB from device1 back to the DBH. Then the green twisted pair in cable4 carries dataA and dataB from the DBH to device3. Then the green twisted pair in cable5 carries dataA and dataB back to the DBH. And so on and so on.
 
In a conventional data bus without using a DBH the pair is wired from the M1 to device1 to device2 to device3and soon. Either way you must end up with the devices dataA and dataB terminals wired in parallel.
 
In addition to the data wires each device uses a second pair of wires to deliver power to it so when using a DBH each device requires six wires andwhen not using a DBH each device requires four wires.
 
Mike.
 

mikefamig

Senior Member
The example above example of DBH wiring is over simplified just as an example to make things clear.
 
In the real world the DBH wiring would not use two cat5 cables and all green pairs. For example The same is achieved by using two pairs of a single cable. For example, the green pair from the DBH to the device and the blue pair from that device back to the DBH.
 
Mike.
 

drvnbysound

Senior Member
JerseyMarv said:
 
Is it possible for me to have a DBH at the panel (which could ultimately receive two keypads and two XIN's), and a DBH at the garage XIN? What kind of limitations would I experience going this route?
 
Yes. You can have more than one DBH installed. I had 2 at my last residence; one at the panel and another in my detached garage. Having said that, understand what Mike mentioned regarding the length of your databus. The total length cannon exceed 4000-ft. In MOST residences, you're not going to come close to this.

[I calculated Cat6 runs for our new home a few weeks back; I'll be dropping (4) Cat6 cables to each of 6 wall mounted TV locations, and (2) more toward the bottom of those same walls. Add in a few more misc. drops and my TOTAL wire length is [liberally] around 2200-ft. for around 40 or so network drops throughout my entire house. Even with the DBH length doubling, it would be impossible for me to come close to getting to that length unless I purposely tried to do it.]
 
Feed and return method using CatX, the 4K bus length is pretty easy to get to in a house with multiple devices when using a star topology. Remember, 4K is end to end, all branches, so a CatX is 2X the distance. If there's any sort of outbuilding, it's VERY easy hit the limit and have to change the topology or wiring methods.
 
I've got 5 keypads, a RF receiver and output boards and serials scattered. If I averaged it all out, I'd be saying about 1500' total, which if I went as a feed/return, 3k OAL. Already 3/4 the way there without adding any more equipment.
 
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