CAT5 under house eve - do I need an underground rated? In Sun?
- Thread starter Linwood
- Start date
Success.
Massive luck was involved.
I put a hook onto the pool pole, and could reach the corner. By pushing down the insulation I could get a better feel for height conceptually if not quantitatively, and there's really no good visibility from that angle, I think the rod was pushing up too high into a "V" where the ridge board and rafter meet. So I pushed the pole into the corner hoping to be able to see it through the hole and tie to it.
Went out side, could not see the pole (in retrospect I think it was still inside the wall and too low and could not be lifted high enough to clear the wall due to rafters in the way), pulled out the wire and rod I had stuffed up there to get a better look and.... it was stuck. Pulled a bit more and it had give in it.
Hoping what I thought might have happened did, went back into the attic and started slowly pulling the pole back. S ure enough, the wire had fallen off the rod and landed right on the hook on the pole, on the inside of the wall.
Pulled it all through and now have a wire run.
Could not duplicate that in years of trying I bet. My late father in law used to say "I'd rather be lucky than good any day".
Massive luck was involved.
I put a hook onto the pool pole, and could reach the corner. By pushing down the insulation I could get a better feel for height conceptually if not quantitatively, and there's really no good visibility from that angle, I think the rod was pushing up too high into a "V" where the ridge board and rafter meet. So I pushed the pole into the corner hoping to be able to see it through the hole and tie to it.
Went out side, could not see the pole (in retrospect I think it was still inside the wall and too low and could not be lifted high enough to clear the wall due to rafters in the way), pulled out the wire and rod I had stuffed up there to get a better look and.... it was stuck. Pulled a bit more and it had give in it.
Hoping what I thought might have happened did, went back into the attic and started slowly pulling the pole back. S ure enough, the wire had fallen off the rod and landed right on the hook on the pole, on the inside of the wall.
Pulled it all through and now have a wire run.
Could not duplicate that in years of trying I bet. My late father in law used to say "I'd rather be lucky than good any day".
drvnbysound
Senior Member
Glad to hear that you had success!
I seem to find that I often end up with such luck pretty often with these types of jobs. Over the years, I've often wondered if I'm actually that lucky or just that good
EDIT: Seemingly having problems with font size. Tried changing it manually, and no such "luck"
EDIT2: Not sure what that was about, but font size issue resolved!
I seem to find that I often end up with such luck pretty often with these types of jobs. Over the years, I've often wondered if I'm actually that lucky or just that good
EDIT: Seemingly having problems with font size. Tried changing it manually, and no such "luck"
EDIT2: Not sure what that was about, but font size issue resolved!
Direct burial is not required and would technically not be allowed (icky-pic) is supposed to be terminated as soon as practicable inside the building. In actuality, it's adding complexity and expense and could also be adding to a fire hazard (most gels are flammable).RAL said:
Sunlight resistant/outdoor, such as CMX would be the recommended cable. If installed properly, there really isn't going to be much, if any cable exposed....and most cameras would enclose any cable same as a JB.
Just an hour ago ordered 1000' of direct burial, but without shield or gel (i.e. it read more like CMX). Chinese I presume, as it was fairly cheap ($170), but I figured I could use that for most everything.
Can I assume the "technically not allowed" relates to the run that comes in from outside and termination, probably with lightning protection? I.e. is there actually a restriction against using it (for example) totally inside?
I have one place where I want to mount two cameras - corner of a pool cage -- that I have no idea where I'm going to put the wires. There's a nice plate there to mount them on, but it's just a plate. These are turrents so no "inside". I hate to put a big ugly box up there, but I'm actually thinking of some kind of shrink wrap on the connector and wire leading up to the camera (which is supposed to be fully weatherproof). I'm not really keen on ethernet up there at a high point (lightning) but it is the only place I can get a view of our docks, at least that I have found so far. Plus having to meet spousal appearance regulations.
Haven't bought those two cameras yet though, so I may switch to a different style. Do most bullet cameras have a cavity for the cable to terminate in? (I'm not sure what "JB" is above).
Can I assume the "technically not allowed" relates to the run that comes in from outside and termination, probably with lightning protection? I.e. is there actually a restriction against using it (for example) totally inside?
I have one place where I want to mount two cameras - corner of a pool cage -- that I have no idea where I'm going to put the wires. There's a nice plate there to mount them on, but it's just a plate. These are turrents so no "inside". I hate to put a big ugly box up there, but I'm actually thinking of some kind of shrink wrap on the connector and wire leading up to the camera (which is supposed to be fully weatherproof). I'm not really keen on ethernet up there at a high point (lightning) but it is the only place I can get a view of our docks, at least that I have found so far. Plus having to meet spousal appearance regulations.
Haven't bought those two cameras yet though, so I may switch to a different style. Do most bullet cameras have a cavity for the cable to terminate in? (I'm not sure what "JB" is above).
JB= junction box.
Direct burial cable usually is a lot more difficult to work with and has a thicker PE insulation (black) in addition to the UV portion. Usually a heck of a lot more difficult to work with, especially when talking untwist and putting RJ45's on it. I can't comment as to what you ordered, I don't know the spec. I doubt it's like the SJ cables that come with the Axis outdoor cameras.
I don't know which cameras you're putting in, but there has to be some location for cabling to either exit or a whip with a butt RJ45 connector.
Most (better) camera manufacturers offer a backbox or they mount on standard bell boxes (either round or similar) or can be adapted easily and really aren't bad looking. Would look far more professional than cable running willy-nilly to whatever location you end up at. I would protect the cable as much as possible and not expose a RJ45 to weather no matter how much you think you protected it with silicone or shrink tube.
As far as the lightning factor, if it's a concern, separate out the copper from your normal network or put surges on the units to mitigate the damages.
Direct burial cable usually is a lot more difficult to work with and has a thicker PE insulation (black) in addition to the UV portion. Usually a heck of a lot more difficult to work with, especially when talking untwist and putting RJ45's on it. I can't comment as to what you ordered, I don't know the spec. I doubt it's like the SJ cables that come with the Axis outdoor cameras.
I don't know which cameras you're putting in, but there has to be some location for cabling to either exit or a whip with a butt RJ45 connector.
Most (better) camera manufacturers offer a backbox or they mount on standard bell boxes (either round or similar) or can be adapted easily and really aren't bad looking. Would look far more professional than cable running willy-nilly to whatever location you end up at. I would protect the cable as much as possible and not expose a RJ45 to weather no matter how much you think you protected it with silicone or shrink tube.
As far as the lightning factor, if it's a concern, separate out the copper from your normal network or put surges on the units to mitigate the damages.
I've gotten two of the Hikvision DS-2CD2332-I cameras (http://www.hikvision.com/en/us/products_show.asp?id=9125 ) and it has a whip both for RJ45 and also (optionally) 12V. This works great mounting to a wall or soffit as it just stuffs up inside. Now that you mention it they have a wall bracket that looks like it would contain the wires, but it make sit at least twice as obvious hanging up there.
That's why I am buying cameras 1 or 2 at a time, as I can experiment and see what kind works. Tonight's experiment is to see if the IR light goes through screen -- I'm actually surprised it seems to. So I MAY be able to do the dock just by aiming one out through the pool cage. At worst I could separately like the dock and turn the IR light off on the camera I guess, but I want to get a wire run up to that area where I can experiment for real.
Difficult to work with - well, not sure I can stop it now, but it won't break the bank, and I am still unsure how I am going to get a camera for our docks. I very well may actually run a line out there and put it on a piling or something simliar (where a junction box -- sorry, JB should have been obvious -- would not be too weird, there are several. Just none up high. And my GUESS is that it's typical low quality Chinese, though it claims to be 23 AWG solid copper, so maybe I'll be lucky and it will be just a bit heavier than normal.
When you say "Separate out the copper from your normal network" are you suggesting a pair of fiber media converters to put a break in? Haven't bought any since I quit work, that certainly is safe, but used to be pricey. I'll look.
That's why I am buying cameras 1 or 2 at a time, as I can experiment and see what kind works. Tonight's experiment is to see if the IR light goes through screen -- I'm actually surprised it seems to. So I MAY be able to do the dock just by aiming one out through the pool cage. At worst I could separately like the dock and turn the IR light off on the camera I guess, but I want to get a wire run up to that area where I can experiment for real.
Difficult to work with - well, not sure I can stop it now, but it won't break the bank, and I am still unsure how I am going to get a camera for our docks. I very well may actually run a line out there and put it on a piling or something simliar (where a junction box -- sorry, JB should have been obvious -- would not be too weird, there are several. Just none up high. And my GUESS is that it's typical low quality Chinese, though it claims to be 23 AWG solid copper, so maybe I'll be lucky and it will be just a bit heavier than normal.
When you say "Separate out the copper from your normal network" are you suggesting a pair of fiber media converters to put a break in? Haven't bought any since I quit work, that certainly is safe, but used to be pricey. I'll look.
pete_c
Guru
Here in the midwest (and it was a pita) I put 1/2 electrical boxes in brick on the first story to mount my 1st floor oudoor cams. I had added more outdoor electrical boxes and did same. Most of the work was chipping away the brick a little bit at a time. (utilize Optex analog and Grandstream HD IP / Generic Grandstream OS outdoor cams).
In FL neighbor (across the canal) mounted two cams (~2004?) on his home masonary pointing at his boat docks. Infrastructure was run during construction. The cams are about 15-20 feet and below his roof line maybe 5 feet? You can see one cam in the second picture. Third picture was original spot for one camera (under eave) and he moved it. (little dot above tree between both docks). He has no lanai and has had issues with birds using the pool deck as a resting area. Next door neighbor has multiple outdoor cams which he monitors much of the time from the EU. We had an issue in the late 2000's where a manatee decided to live under our dock. (replaced dock and put in new sea wall)
You will get reflections. Best methodology is using outdoor LED illumination autonmously installed. Here utilize outdoor sensors which just turn night to day after hours (do both).
In FL neighbor (across the canal) mounted two cams (~2004?) on his home masonary pointing at his boat docks. Infrastructure was run during construction. The cams are about 15-20 feet and below his roof line maybe 5 feet? You can see one cam in the second picture. Third picture was original spot for one camera (under eave) and he moved it. (little dot above tree between both docks). He has no lanai and has had issues with birds using the pool deck as a resting area. Next door neighbor has multiple outdoor cams which he monitors much of the time from the EU. We had an issue in the late 2000's where a manatee decided to live under our dock. (replaced dock and put in new sea wall)
You will get reflections. Best methodology is using outdoor LED illumination autonmously installed. Here utilize outdoor sensors which just turn night to day after hours (do both).
Attachments
Pete, here's a shot just as construction finished (in fact you can see some screens hanging not yet finished). The dock (Boat and two jet skies) gets built on the left directly behind it. notice the pool cage stands in the way of any mount on the house even itself, other than looking through the cage. The hip roof (for hurricane reasons) slopes to all sides so there's no "A" side that is usable either, and I'm not about to try to climb on steep concrete tile to mount on the roof itself. It's at least a 6 in 12 if not steeper roof.
when I get another camera going to experiment with mounting one inside looking out, but worried the screen will be "bright" in the IR at night. Testing last night in a different screen though showed the screen almost invisible.
And you can see what a "wart" a camera mounted on the corner of the cage is going to look like.
Off now to try to get cable run to the inside of the cage from the middle facing the door, while it is cool (you know, under 100F) in the attic.
when I get another camera going to experiment with mounting one inside looking out, but worried the screen will be "bright" in the IR at night. Testing last night in a different screen though showed the screen almost invisible.
And you can see what a "wart" a camera mounted on the corner of the cage is going to look like.
Off now to try to get cable run to the inside of the cage from the middle facing the door, while it is cool (you know, under 100F) in the attic.
pete_c
Guru
Well that is a PITA.
What are those wires above the box to the right going to the roof for? Box looks to be for pool pump electric stuff eh?
The lanai tubing is hollow and the cams are light. I have run LV stuff for the lanai door on ours. That said we have lost 2 of 3 large palm trees and damaged the lanai twice in the last 15 years. I did run electric lights to the tops of the palm trees. (well they were already there from the 1960's) - I reconnected the electric. There is electric / water on the dock. One high post on the dock with a wide 180 degree cam would also work. That said also put a light post on the walking path to the dock with LV / HV wires going to it. The post is around 6 feet high. I have used 6X6 posts for my CCTV cams stuff but not in FL. (using one of those long drill bits ran LV in the center of the 6X6 posts - been like this for over 10 years and still works fine).
What are those wires above the box to the right going to the roof for? Box looks to be for pool pump electric stuff eh?
The lanai tubing is hollow and the cams are light. I have run LV stuff for the lanai door on ours. That said we have lost 2 of 3 large palm trees and damaged the lanai twice in the last 15 years. I did run electric lights to the tops of the palm trees. (well they were already there from the 1960's) - I reconnected the electric. There is electric / water on the dock. One high post on the dock with a wide 180 degree cam would also work. That said also put a light post on the walking path to the dock with LV / HV wires going to it. The post is around 6 feet high. I have used 6X6 posts for my CCTV cams stuff but not in FL. (using one of those long drill bits ran LV in the center of the 6X6 posts - been like this for over 10 years and still works fine).
One piece of conduit is LV control for the pool pump, it then runs in conduit buried. One of those going down feeds the pool pumps, etc., the other runs down to the dock). The other extending from the roof I think is the actual feed for the subpanel itself, they apparently could not run it down the wall (maybe they did it after the capped the wall, not sure).
I just got down from the attic though, and the good new the middle and far side (In this view) are very accessible, and I think this near side is at least up to around where those conduits attach, the rooms are not high enough to prevent fairly easy feed back up with a push rod.
On the dock the only high posts are on the boat lift, too close to do much good. I think I CAN get the cameras on one corner of the cage, I am just not sure if I want to. But that's the nice thing of a DIY job, I can wait for inspiration a while longer.
I just got down from the attic though, and the good new the middle and far side (In this view) are very accessible, and I think this near side is at least up to around where those conduits attach, the rooms are not high enough to prevent fairly easy feed back up with a push rod.
On the dock the only high posts are on the boat lift, too close to do much good. I think I CAN get the cameras on one corner of the cage, I am just not sure if I want to. But that's the nice thing of a DIY job, I can wait for inspiration a while longer.
drvnbysound
Senior Member
Linwood said:
Are you saying that the dock will be to the left if looking at the water from the house (where the walkway at the bottom left of the picture leads to) or is that your dock toward the center-left of the picture?
The dock is to the far left. The sidewalk in the foreground leads down to the dock. The boat is roughly centered behind the pool cage, and the two jet ski lifts are at the far end far left in background. I'm hoping to get one camera to cover both. I experimented with a latter and some estimates of focal lengths (converting to a DSLR length) and even with a 2.8mm lens it is tough to get them all in view from the ends, while still having an decent level of resolution on whichever is furthest (e.g. if I shoot from the jet ski end, a person is awfully tiny at the rear of the boat). The actual ideal direction is a wide lens shooting from the house through the cage, as then all parts are at about equal distance. But there's the screen, which is why I want to experiment shooting through it.
pete_c
Guru
Yeah here originally was going to install the weather station on one corner of the framing of the Lanai. It was too big though. Well next storm while I was procrastinating knocked out 1/4 of the Lanai.
I did notice in our lanai that there is a space or channel that is sort of sealed between the eave and the aluminum framing of the lanai.
I would test it out for a while to see the view. When it rains the water sticks to the lanai screens a bit.
BTW here utilize 3.5mm, 2.8mm and wider lens for outside cams now. Favorite is the 2.8mm lens. The new stuff now is 180 degrees 5 MP cams. Nice resolution and view angle.
