CAT5 under house eve - do I need an underground rated? In Sun?

[tmbrown97]

I'm pretty surprised you went with the noname chinese fairly unknown cable over the ToughCable.  The ToughCable is well spec'd and designed for fully exposed outdoor use in things like exposed vertical tower runs, exteriors of homes, etc - it's what it was made for... and it's shielded which gives you the ESD protection if you add a suitable drain in the run - and still cheaper than $170.  It's my goto for exterior runs because it's incredibly tough and resilient - and I actually prefer using it over other brands like Belden... I've used them on installs for nationally recognized customers on $50K microwave radio runs 100' from the ocean (corrosive environment) and had it in place for years now with no issues.
 
I guess my point is, if you see it and don't like working with it, then still consider the toughcable.  I've put it through its paces and haven't found anything that compares on price and performance.
 
That said, congrats on the cable run!  
 
You have many factors here covered by others... IR Reflection can be an issue which can be mitigated by disabling internal IR and adding external outside the screen... that also provides enhanced visibility.
 
An extra camera to cover both vantages can usually be better than a compromise situation... we're not talking a ton of money here.  You can also get a higher zoom lens further back pointed at your target if the up-close locations are too close.
 
And as you noticed, the pigtail cameras really need a box of some sort to hide the connector in.  Eyeball cameras have some mounts available that will make them stick off a bit but give you a place to hide wiring, or a junction box works wonders.

 

[Linwood]

I'm pretty surprised you went with the noname chinese fairly unknown cable over the ToughCable. 

 
Honestly I think I was just confused between looking for something I could get fast and that I could also use for interior cabling as 1000' lasts me a long time.  My impression from reading the ToughCable writeups was that it was not very usable with standard connectors and termination, and I had the impression (since decided mistaken) what I ordered was such a compromise.  Toughcable is also shielded and I was unsure what impact that had for general use especially if I didn't want to get the Toughcable connectors and connect them to ground at one end (in interior walls) - I'm not saying it is an issue, I have just never used shielded Cat5. 
 
But especially with DELInstallation's comments I did some more reading and think what I ordered is just not going to work well inside later, and I cancelled the order.
 
My impression is that the exterior (especially direct burial) cable is just too thick to be easily used for interior cabling with standard connectors.  Would you agree?
 
I'm going to just find some regular interior cable in 1000' and wait and see what I need (if any) that is exterior and pay a lot more per foot and buy some small sections for that.  Though I'm waiting to see if the direct burial stuff really got cancelled or if it arrives (and/or can be refused).  The last thing I need is 1000' of it AND of regular interior cat5.
 
---- 
 
I have found another viewpoint, while working on a cable run for the interior of the Lanai, that can see both dock areas through the screen.  My plan is to use the Lanai camera to test that with the screen and see what happens.  My guess is I need external illumination, but that might be easier than cameras.  Anyone suggest a good external illumination that is AC powered and with its own timer?  I have wall outlets already outside, that are not in direct view (meaning they won't blow out the camera) that one or two such depending on power might work well, if they have a wide field of illumination (like 150 degrees or so).  Do such exist?    I can't easily run cable out there, but there are already two weather resistant AC outlets on that wall.

 

[pete_c]

Anyone suggest a good external illumination that is AC powered and with its own timer?  I have wall outlets already outside, that are not in direct view (meaning they won't blow out the camera) that one or two such depending on power might work well, if they have a wide field of illumination (like 150 degrees or so).  Do such exist?

 
It is easier than cameras stuff. 
 
Best deterrent is visible lighting although nowadays you can also blanket area with non visible to the naked eye LED lighting.
 
Over the years have gone from HV to LV LED lighting here.  Recently purchased some 10 watt 12VDC flood lamps which are pretty bright at lighting up stuff. (nice wash lamps)  These are almost too bright.  (low power use / bright lights).
 
Light pollution issues cropped up in FL from one neighbor (who totally illuminated his dock and surrounding areas) and complained about another neighbors security lighting / night lighting / dock lighting stuff obstructing his water views.
 
Over the years personally have had issues with any metallic outside of the home falling apart in a matter of just a year or two.  The spot corner by roof eaves security spots are made of PVC and are still intact while the rest of the outdoor lighting has been replaced over the years (once only with better stuff).

 

[Linwood]

I'm very much a "enjoy the dark sky" sort, so I want lighting that is not visible to the eye.  Not worried that the LED's themselves glow a bit (I realize there are some dark ones), but I have too many neighbors with bright floods now, do not want to contribute to it.
 
As an aside before moving here I brought my 10" telescope with me, and found it totally useless here due to light pollution, short of a trip out to the everglades somewhere (at which point the clouds of mosquitoes gets in the way).
 
So yes, I'd want IR only.   What I'd like if i can find it is a small plug-in panel I can wall mount, that is not too conspicuous, and just plug into the outlet and let it turn on and off automatically.  I could put a 12v adapter in the outlet as well I guess, which might be easier to find (the outlet covers here, maybe everywhere now, are those big dome plastic things).

 

[pete_c]

As an aside before moving here I brought my 10" telescope with me, and found it totally useless here due to light pollution, short of a trip out to the everglades somewhere (at which point the clouds of mosquitoes gets in the way).

 
Unrelated to star gazing got a traffic ticket on I75 getting caught by a helicopter (1st and only time that ever happened to me) going about 140mph by Panama city in a new Trans Am way back then another speeding ticket doing similiar thru the Everglades years later (going to the Keys).
 
Yup; here a few years back we rented a home in VI and all we did was watch the night stars as the view was spectacular.  That and explored the Island as it was small. 
 
Most fun was just watching this telescope one morning around sunrise I saw it move and that made my entire day.  Well it was a bit low on the WAF as I made a point of watching the sunrise from nearby that day and really it was only 10 minutes away from the home we had rented.
 
Geez now recalling one of the Islander issues related to how a million dollars in grant monies (?) got lost there for some unexplicable reasons.
 

 
The eastern terminus of the VLBA, on Saint Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands
 
Here is a moonrise picture from the gulf looking towards the east taken one day / night. 
 

So yes, I'd want IR only.   What I'd like if i can find it is a small plug-in panel I can wall mount, that is not too conspicuous, and just plug into the outlet and let it turn on and off automatically.  I could put a 12v adapter in the outlet as well I guess, which might be easier to find (the outlet covers here, maybe everywhere now, are those big dome plastic things).

 
Prices / output / footprints / LED light panels have dropped considerably over the years. 

 

[tmbrown97]

Honestly I think I was just confused between looking for something I could get fast and that I could also use for interior cabling as 1000' lasts me a long time.  My impression from reading the ToughCable writeups was that it was not very usable with standard connectors and termination, and I had the impression (since decided mistaken) what I ordered was such a compromise.  Toughcable is also shielded and I was unsure what impact that had for general use especially if I didn't want to get the Toughcable connectors and connect them to ground at one end (in interior walls) - I'm not saying it is an issue, I have just never used shielded Cat5. 

Purely in the interest of education...  there are two grades of ToughCable - one that's just FTP - foil wrapped twisted pair and really not that much thicker than regular Cat5, then there's ToughCable Carrier and that's the one that looks more like Coax and has the same braided shield.  Both when terminated properly use the shielded connectors and plug into something that can drain any transient energy.  Now Ubnt is making a connector with a wire attached so you can ground it yourself even if you don't have a shielded/grounded port to plug into.
 
Both types terminate with the same tools - it just takes a little more patience until you get used to these.  I have a routine down where I can do it pretty quick now.  The first couple took a couple more minutes.
 
I have probably have 5,000' of it in the garage so if you decide you just want to buy 100' feel free to PM; I could send the connectors as well.  most of what I have is the thicker shielded stuff but there should be at least 1 box of the thinner.
 
 
Now for the IR Illuminators - there is a wavelength you want to make sure you match up, but there are lots of cheap options out there to test.  There are higher end brands that can be powered a variety of ways and don't look like illuminators but they're more expensive than your cameras so in your situation I'd order 2-3 from there and see what works.

 

[Linwood]

I have probably have 5,000' of it in the garage so if you decide you just want to buy 100' feel free to PM; I could send the connectors as well.  most of what I have is the thicker shielded stuff but there should be at least 1 box of the thinner.
 
Now for the IR Illuminators - there is a wavelength you want to make sure you match up, but there are lots of cheap options out there to test.  There are higher end brands that can be powered a variety of ways and don't look like illuminators but they're more expensive than your cameras so in your situation I'd order 2-3 from there and see what works.

 
Very kind, thank you.  I might.  I've run 4 cameras now, need to experiment a bit looking through the pool cage screen, hope to do that tonight.  I didn't find any innocuous illuminators yet, but there's a bunch floating around.  Will keep looking, right now having trouble getting one camera to work right in zoneminder.   But thank you for the kind offer.

 

[pete_c]

Which model camera are you have problems with?
 
I have dealt with this company and they have good customer service.  Here is their illuminator page.
 
Here is a picture of a tiny illuminator.

with a two year warranty.  Goes for $46.50
 
Build a new box a couple of days back using Ubuntu LTS 64 bit for the NVR application mentioned above.

 

[Linwood]

Let me first say it's probably my problem, as I have built zoneminder from source.
 
I have four Hikvision DS-2CD2332-I cameras.  Three are working fine.  They are the same firmware version, and same configuration (i've stared at those pages for many minutes).
 
Zoneminder installed from a package works with ffmpeg as the method. Maybe.  The problem is I think this is at least somewhat image specific and it's now dark and didn't try the package version until it was dark.  Zoneminder with the package does not work with remote (at all, so far), or libvlc (it hangs unless I raise the frame rate up to around 10 or so -- but VLC itself also hangs at the 4 fps I am using).  
 
Zoneminder built from source just won't run libvlc, I get a segment fault and backtrace, though i haven't so far a clue why.  My guess is a configuration problem in the build (or setup). Or possibly that it is a later set of commits.  The same version also doesn't work with remote, and with ffmpeg it runs but then smears the image.  I've read online that libvlc often does better than ffmpeg when one has this problem.
 
And right now, even though it was working before with smudges, now I can't get that camera to work in my built-from-source copy even with ffmpeg.  
 
Too many combinations of possible problems at the moment, am working through them.  

 

[Linwood]

I have dealt with this company and they have good customer service.  Here is their illuminator page.

 
They are a tad bit strange.  Their POE camera page lists 36 models of cameras for sale -- 34 out of stock.   The illuminator has 41 with 29 out of stock. 

They must be popular. 
 
I kind of like this one: http://www.camera2000.com/en/160-deg-angle-ir-leds-fill-illuminator-150-square-meter-waterproof.html
 
It looks like it could mount flat on a wall or under an eve.

Can I assume that even if not mentioned all of these turn on and off with light, or is lack of that indication a sign it does not? 
 
Need to look around tomorrow and see where I can get power.   I've already found one of the new cameras just doesn't have enough light. So I might need a couple.
 
Back to debugging.

 

[Linwood]

Sigh... Reboot and now it is working (with ffmpeg), though I still think the image smudging is scene related, so I may have to wait for tomorrow.    Though working on libvlc now, I still suspect that is config.

 

[pete_c]

Can I assume that even if not mentioned all of these turn on and off with light, or is lack of that indication a sign it does not?

 
Many have analog sensors to turn on the LEDs.
 
The above mentioned site used to ship from China and it was fast and always free shipping.  They are now using local stateside warehouses and sometimes shipping takes a bit longer.
 
Here I just used this for my Ubuntu 14.04 64 bit builds.
 
Works ever time.
 
http://www.zoneminder.com/wiki/index.php/Ubuntu_Server_14.04_64-bit_with_Zoneminder_1.28.0_the_easy_way
 
and install Webmin to manage the box.
 
Guessing you have used the ZM Hikvision wiki for your stuff eh.

 

[Linwood]

Yeah, I did that and it worked for 15.04, but I wanted the version with the RESTFUL API's in it, was going to try that guy's new android client. That's why I started building from scratch, but also if I keep going I'm going to try writing a new version of the Timeline program.  I spent a bunch of time looking at it, and can't see any good reason why it cannot show all monitors (or selected monitors) at the same time, other than bandwidth to the client.  But then I headed down the path of switching it to HTML5 canvas and drawing the graph without all those DIV's and then UPS came with the new cameras and....   There's never time to actually finish one of these tangents.

 

[pete_c]

Ahh...
.
I had mentioned one of the newer cams LED lighting didn't work.  Well just switched it to the analog switch and it works.
 
Gotta save my bird (40 year old Blue Crown Amazon); wife and her are arguing now....gets very verbal....

 

[Linwood]

Ahh...
.
I had mentioned one of the newer cams LED lighting didn't work.  Well just switched it to the analog switch and it works.
 
Gotta save my bird (40 year old Blue Crown Amazon); wife and her are arguing now....gets very verbal....

 
We had a Yellow Naped for several years until we had to decide to keep our kid or the bird.  Trying not to second guess that decision.  :blush:
 
But I've rarely seen an Amazon that couldn't win an argument with a human.  I have a scar on my nose to prove it.