Concerned about Elk logic

aerosoob

New Member
I'm trying to decide on a hardware controller that is flexible, programmable, and can work with various types of HA protocols. The Elk seems to fit the bill on most fronts, but my concern is with several posts that reference the limited IF/THEN logic of the Elk. Is this something that can be overcome with the correct software driving the logic (such as Homeseer or CQC)? Or is it a hardware-based limitation?

Thanks for the help!

- Aerosoob
 
Any limitation for the Elk's programming language is indeed inherent on that system. IF you want to expand the logic you can use a program such as HomeSeer, but at a cost as the computer now MUST be on and communicating with the Elk for that logic to work.

Most Cocooners like tasks deemed critical to be independent of a computer and rely on a logic controller as it is a lot more reliable. Of course others will argue this logic (but they are wrong). ;) :)
 
Yes, it is a hardware/firmware based limitation. Some find the Elk programming somewhat limiting, some find it totally adequate. It all depends upon your needs and your point of view. I suggest downloading the ElkRP demo program and trying it for yourself.

If you couple the M1 with other software (such as HS,CQC,ML) then you are only limited by your software choice.
 
I'm pretty new to this myself, but it seems there are two schools of thought on this. Some believe you don't want any software involved and should do everything through the Elk. Others view the Elk as a hardware interface with limited rules support and use the ASCII protocol to communicate with it from HomeSeer, etc. I'm still figuring all this out but it seems to me the answer is somewhere in the middle. Use the Elk logic for critical things like security, controlling lighting during a security issue (i.e. turn on the lights when the smokes go off, flash the house lights so the fire dept can find you, etc.) and go ahead and use software for more of the robust HA (but not super critical things you want to do).

Just my .02. That's all I have left after multiple trips to AO. ;)
 
Agreed Randy. I hope that I didn't infer an "all or nothing" situation with my post above. That's what I meant by "critical" as you stated.

Remember also that another advantage of programs such as CQC, HomeSeer and others is they offer a lot of what I call "gingerbread" such as announcing caller ID, music, etc... So using separate software may render additional features that the Elk alone can not provide!
 
My M1G has around 120 rules - and 10% space remaining.

This is quite a concern as I have several other things I want to do. I have very few HA rules, so it's ultimately going to require me to eliminate some functions. I have a Homevision pro controller which will be installed in the next few weeks. I'm anticipating that I can move all lighting control to it, as well as pass an ascii message to the HV when a rule fires in the M1G and have the HV do various things. I also don't expect this to free up a LOT of memory.

One of the problems is no OR logic. This causes you to write multiple rules, consuming way too much of the limited memory.

I don't mean to put the M1 down, it is a fine device, but I hope improvements will resolve some of the shortcomings. I don't have my manual handy, but IIRC there is a limit of 512 rules. Each RULE, AND argument, and THEN statement consumes 1 rule, as does each TEXT you create.
 
BraveSirRobbin said:
Agreed Randy. I hope that I didn't infer an "all or nothing" situation with my post above. That's what I meant by "critical" as you stated.
Wasn't referring to you at all. But I have had people act surprised when I say something about using software in addition to the Elk, as if the Elk was the Holy Grail of HA. ;)
 
RandyKnight said:
Wasn't referring to you at all. But I have had people act surprised when I say something about using software in addition to the Elk, as if the Elk was the Holy Grail of HA. :)
I also agree again for I have seen the Grail, and even though the Elk M-1 is a great piece of hardware, it looks nothing like it!! ;)
 
The Elk M1 is an UL certified alarm, has the most up-to-date interfaces to the most popular automation technologies (I/O, lightning, Temp, soon to add 1-wire), has a pretty robust (while not perfect) rule system, and has a serial protocol so that you can expand as much as you want using another solution of your choice. Just that. The rest is up to you and your imagination.

BTW, and you cant beat the price.

I guess that 95% of the HA enthusiast can live with that.

There are other excellent controllers with better programming capabilities, but then you start to see hardware compatibility issues with the newest HA technologies. Its your choice.
 
I'm just getting my feet wet to this whole HA realm and I hope to be installing a Elk system over the next few months, but if I understand it correctly, there is another solution.

The oscelot controller can be programmed with a wide range of commands and is self-sufficient - meaning it doesn't need a computer that is on to make it work. It is also relatively inexpensive - about $150.

So you could use the Elk for security, etc and then add an ocelot to handle the other aspects of HA to keep from running out of code. Both units could also be tied into a computer for interface options. But neither would rely on the computer to work.
 
Back to grails, the Elk is the holy grail of HA friendly alarm systems...but it remains an alarm system. It can do macros and simple conditional logic quite well but as others have pointed out, using it in conjunction with another controller such as the Ocelot (like I do), Homevision or even a PC based program is the best way to get intricate conditional logic capabilities.
 
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