Considering a move to the dark side (Homeseer)

[carlh6902]

I have been a HAL2000 user for 15 years.  I'm considering a move to Homeseer, and would like to hear from some of the gurus here regarding whether HS3 will do what I need.
 
Specifically, I need to find a replacement for HAL that supports the following:
1) Insteon, via the USB PLM interface
2) Security functions of the HAI OmniLT security panel (RS-232)
3) Zones of the OmniLT panel
4) Outputs of the OmniLT panel
5) RC2000 OmniStat, via the OmniLT panel (not as a stand-alone interface)
6) Ocelot SECU and IR
7) WGL 800+ RF Receiver
 
It looks like Homeseer would be a great fit for everything on my list but the OmniLT.  I can't verify that there are plug-ins to work with this specific hardware.
 
Can anybody help with this?  If not HS3, what else would be a good fit?
 
Carl
 

 

[pete_c]

@Carl
 
There is an HAI plugin being developed.  It is not finished at this time.  You can try it in it's current state.
 
Here testing HS3 and using HS2 for "production".
 
Concurrently testing the speed of the HAI OPII HS2 serial plugin versus the HS3 HAI network plugin.
 
I have shut off the HS3 Wintel box and only testing in Linux (64bit) at this time.
 
I am also currently utilizing an HAI OPII panel (X2).
 
Hooked up to my HS 2 box I have an Insteon PLM (not really using it much these days), OPII serial plugin, Omnistat2 via OPII and 3 WGL 800's.  I have an Ocelot here but haven't used it since the early 2000's (with HS).

 

[tmbrown97]

I bought HS3 Pro but don't have the time or patience to invest in it... if you're interested in buying my license, let me know.  We've confirmed it's transferable and above-books and for a great price.

 

[NeverDie]

 If not HS3, what else would be a good fit?

Here's a thread which surfaces some interesting alternatives:  http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/27336-frustrated-with-home-automation-software/page-13?hl=%2Bfrustrated#entry224542

 

[ano]

There is an HAI plugin being developed.  It is not finished at this time. 

 
I stopped using HomeSeer over 10 years ago because they didn't have the HAI network plugin, and they kept delaying when it would be available.  I'm certainly glad I didn't wait.
 
I'm not sure how any company who wants to make home automation software can just flat-out ignore that?  You have to wonder, are they designing software with their customer's in mind, or are they designing software as a hobby to just play with?  I think too many companies are just "playing" instead of doing their job researching what people want and need, and then creating it.
 
I have dumped CQC for the same reason. Dean is a great guy, but he is obsessed with creating his vision of home automation software with a graphic interface using his proprietary language, when the world is going web-based. Even worse is he has long neglected updating interfaces like UPB and the HAI network interface, which are easily updated. To this day, CQC can't handle when two treads want to send several UPB commands in a row. Some always get lost. 100% UPB is important to me than a graphic interface I don't even use.

 

[pete_c]

Personally here thinking it is difficult to create software that will make everybody happy. 
 
Homeseer has been around a long time.  Personally here have used it since 1998. 
 
If I wasn't a happy camper I would have quit using it many years ago.  Instead I purchased more of it over the years.
 
Everybody is unique and mostly while there is a common understanding of what folks want in automation software there is also disingenuousness going on reinventing of the cogs / wheels of automation. (a "me first thing").
 
 
I am being cynical here as there is a "sucker born every minute" and I have turned into a curmudgeon.
 
"Sucker born every minute" - roots of phrase is said to come from Michael Cassius McDonald (NOT P.T. Barnum)  - 1860's Chicago bounty broker, saloon and gambling-house keeper, eminent politician, and dispenser of cheating privileges.

 

[Dean Roddey]

Well, to be fair, we are creating an HTML5 client. We've added support for TLS encrypted web server connections, persistent web server connections, and support for Websockets in preparation for the HTML5 client, which is being worked on now. And we added an extensible back end to allow you to provide your own websockets client support backend for specialized applications. That's a lot of work in the standards based area, and a lot to come to finish the HTML5 client.
 
But, our Windows Interface Viewer will always kicks its butt, because web based development sucks. It's a massive compromise with woeful tools compared to Windows development. Javascript is one of the worst languages ever for doing serious development. So our Windows based client will always be the flagship and able to do the fanciest stuff. But the HTML5 client will be there for those places where it meets the requirements.
 
As to UPB, we didn't write that driver. Taking on those large, complex systems is a huge undertaking. And, when we do it, it will need to be a pretty complete rewrite because it will need to be a V2 compatible driver and brought up to modern times. It'll happen, but we can't do everything at once. Even just learning enough about such systems to write a competent driver is a lot of work, because we have to do the same for every such system. We just redid the ISY driver and it was quite a slog, and of course recently completely rewrote our Z-Wave driver which was a monster slog. UPB will be gotten to, but we can only do so many of these big ones per release cycle.
 
On the Omni interface, we've done lots of work to it, but it hasn't been in the direction of exposing every little thing that could be exposed. It's been in the direction of allowing people who aren't experts deploy it more easily. So we added support for sucking over the configuration and allowing the driver to auto-configure to the Omni configuration, and of course making it fully V2 complaint so that non-technical users can integrate it using our auto-generation system. Unfortunately, for you anyway, there are vastly more less technical people who we need to get as customers and vastly fewer highly technical people who want to access every possible feature of the Omni.
 
Ultimately, the problem is, for every person who thinks that X is a waste of time, there are just as many people who will not buy the product without X. You can't win unless you do everything and no one does everything.

 

[Digger]

HS3 is still a work in progress and seems unstable in many cases.  Some people are seeing high CPU usage and crashing etc. especially on Hometrollers (they just released a brand new one that may be ok).  HS seems to be relying on its customers to make the plug ins and they are working on the core program.  They abandoned many of their plug ins when they went to HS3 so what used to be included free in HS2 are now paid plug ins in HS3 (UPB, Insteon, HAI etc).  They are basically all about Zwave but that is not working well yet in HS3.  The HSTouch is very outdated appearance wise and some people have been waiting for a couple of years for some basic functionality to be fixed.
 
I gave up and put HS on the shelf yet again a few months ago and there may have been a little progress since then.  My wife could not take the constant inconsistency of things working and then not working day after day.  That was because of slow response due to the high CPU usage of HS3 compared to HS2 and then eventually it crashed.
 
I have since gone to the ISY and it just works (they do not support HAI at this time at least but I use the ELK anyway).  Their Zwave is still a work in progress as well but yet it is more reliable then HS3 the last time I used it in October.  ISY support is soooooooooo much better than HS3.  Emails answered within a day even on weekends.  Support through their forum. 

 

[pete_c]

I concur that Homeseer 3 is still a work in progress.
 
That said I purchased the Homeseer Zee being thrilled that HST had ported Homeseer to Linux. 
 
I also purchased Homeseer 3 Pro and am running it on 64 bit Linux today. 

It is not unstable or crashing for me.
 
I have seen issues with helping Wintel HS3 folks using Homeseer current Z-Wave products.
 
I do not utilize Z-Wave much here and with what I have been using in the Homeseer 3 Linux world I have not had any issues.
 
It is understood that HST has put much efforts into utilizing Z-Wave as a catch all protocol for all automation. 

I have not used Z-Wave as my catch all automation bucket.

Playing with Zigbee here too.
 
I am doing baby steps with a different approach in the migration of my plugins from Homeseer 2 to Homeseer 3.
 
It is more of a distributed in Linux configuration.  I use Homeseer as a basic addendum to my OPII panel and vice versa.  I do not utilize it say for scheduling my lighting but add to my security events with it.  I use it much for weather these days.
 
IE - some stuff that I am doing right now with Homeseer 3 - going baby steps here.  I have two Homeseer 2 boxes doing a bunch of stuff and now two Homeseer 3 boxes doing little bit at a time stuff.
 
HAI OPII plugin - will be running on a tiny box inside of my OPII can.  The device / box will be multipurpose.  First generation device is already running fine.  It is using an OpenWRT base, serial connectivity, network connectivity (wireless and wired) and can be an out of band management device using 4G/LTE (already tested this).
 
Weather stuff / environmental sensors plugins - Using a Cumulus script to read data from two Cumulus servers plus now adding multiple 1-wire environmental sensors to the mix. 
 
Homeseer 2 (from two boxes) to Homeseer 3 dynamic variable interplay - passing variables from Homeseer 2 to Homeseer 3 now with two plugins and it works fine for me.
 
I have not seen any Insteon plug in issues with Homeseer 3; unless folks are not saying anything right now about it.
 
Yup; here abandoned my Insteon efforts a while ago even though I did purchase Insteon new generation stuff. 
 
Most of the Insteon stuff today sits in the abandoned automation trinkets boxes.
 
I've been playing with text to speech now since the 1980's.  I have collected a variety of SAPI voice fonts and have used them over the years with Homeseer.  I never did use voice recognition with Homeseer.  That said though I did purchase a few Microsoft Kinects to play with the purpose of Homeseer integration. 
 
Homeseer 3 touch is also a work in progress.  I have purchased Android tablets, HS Android products for use with Homeseer HSTouch.  I never did like Android though as my preferred touch console.  I always liked Wintel, Wintel CE and now Windows 8+ and Linux for my consoles.  I am not really good at screen console designs always putting too much stuff in them which was low on the WAF.  That said I have tested up to around 20 Homeseer Touch consoles connected to Homeseer 2 and they have worked fine for me.  This has been a little low on the WAF cuz I have little capacitance tablet top touch screens all over the house.  IE: In the master bedroom I have 4 of these plus the HAI Omnitouch in wall console.  In the mixture of the HAI consoles I also have 4 Homeseer in wall consoles using larger 4:3 screens.  I am now testing using a larger in wall 16.9 multitouch capacitance screen with a Windows 8X console which I like.  Direction will be to utilize Wintel touch consoles and Linux touch consoles here.
 
I am doing my own thing now with HS3 touch mixing three automation screens on one display which is working so far.  IE: playing live TV, using Vector GL graphics and HSTouch is working fine for me right now.
 
WAF here is mostly acceptance of what is and my time involved and the blending of home automation in an innocuous manner and being very functional; if that makes any sense?
 
Automation here though is a hobby and Homeseer has provided me with a conduit to be able to do anything (literally) and I am optimistic that it will continue to do the same for me with Homeseer 3. 

 

[picta]

I wonder why would you want to move from HAL to a different HA software if it has worked for you so far. You current device selection most likely is the result of what HAL was capable of supporting, so it may be difficult for you to find another product without making some replacements. You may have to make a choice between HAI and Insteon, the rest will be easy to accommodate. Homeseer does not support HAI, at least at present. CQC and Haiku are the only products I know of that integrate with it. HAI is the most advanced DIY hardware controller on the market today despite its being very old, it integrates and supports a lot of devices of various technologies, which makes implementing a full driver for it very difficult. But it does not integrate with Insteon, partly because Insteon was initially developed as a very closed proprietary system, and now it is also very difficult protocol to develop for. I am surprised that HAL can handle both, so it may be still your best choice.

 

[johnboy70_99]

I have HS2 running now. I have been a HomeSeer user for 13 years now, I have been generally happy with it, I was even interviewed for a newspaper article years ago about home automation where HS was featured. That being said watching the information in the forums here and on the HS forums themselves about the stability of HS3 and the timeline of plugin development, my plan is to hang on to HS until my next regular server rebuild in 3-4 years, or if the server I built in 2013 melted down for some reason, and then maybe go to CQC unless I see the support and stability of HS3 improved between now and then. I would not personally make the switch toward HomeSeer today if I was generally happy with something else. 

 

[pete_c]

wonder why would you want to move from HAI to a different HA software if it has worked for you so far.

 
Never moved/migrated anything here.  Always playing with hardware and software because its a hobby. 
 
I have migrated though from X-10 to Insteon to UPB for my in wall light switches.  (I have in place X10, some Insteon, Z-Wave and ZIgbee) 
 
I had a combination security, TTS and X10 panel in the 1980's to 1990's.  I went to Homeseer in 1998.  Bought a new home in the early 2000's and at that time purchased an OmniPro II.  Built another home and put second OPII panel there.
 
Purchased more HS2 licenses and another OPII panel in the 2000's.   Today one OPII panel serial ports are all being utilized.  I have also added a "few" Omnitouch 5.7's and Omnitouch 5.7e's.  (added the Omnitouch CCTV / Touchscreen hub).  Also have two Russound zoned amps connected to the panel (12 zones).  I still today also utilize the older AB8SS which is connected to more speakers.  (we are at 20 zones here of audio).
 
Production Homeseer is running on two Wintel Server boxes with close to 30 pieces of hardware (20 on one and 10 on another). 
 
Homeseer 3 on Linux is running with only a few scripts and a few plugins; mostly one at a time to play with.
 
The migration from Insteon to UPB started slowly as I wanted Insteon to work.  It was a natural progression from X10 to Insteon. 
 
I had no issues controlling the Insteon switches using the OPII panel connected with JV Digital XTB amplifier.  Today the OPII panel is connected to the dual phased TW-523 device that Jeff sells.
 
One day a few years ago had an electrical debacle which fried most of my Insteon switches.  Over the years I had been updating failed Insteon switches.  I had no issues doing that. 
 
I do recall making a scene at an Insteon display once at one EHExpo mostly griping about the junk that they were selling.
 
The home was already about 1/3 UPB and 2/3 Insteon when the electrical debacle happened. 
 
I removed the rest of the Insteon and upgraded to all UPB.  I did another upgrade more recently removing many UPB switches and replacing them with dual load multiple paddle UPB switches.  They are doing fine today.
 
My HS2 HAI serial plugin is working fine these days.  The beta HS3 HAI plugin while not finished yet works fine.  
 
I am "playing" with other automation software and hardware.  I always have done this because I enjoy automation as a hobby.
 
I did get involved a bit relating to creating a plugin for the OPII panel in Homeseer 3. 
 
Today the HS3 Ubuntu 64 bit test box is using variables from the HS2 Wintel Server relating to the new HAI Homeseer 3 plugin.
 
I am seeing faster response times with the old OPII Homeseer 2 serial plugin. (also in side windows watch the HAI logger program, Java HAI stuff, OpenHAB stuff out of curiosity mostly these days).