Control/monitor a motorized gate at the end of a long driveway

[riverhawk]

Building a house that has a 1000' driveway. I've already had electrical poles installed down the driveway for power/phone service so I'm trying to avoid trenching(I would be upset if I had to trench since I could have just done that for power/phones instead of paying for the poles). There is no clear line of sight to the house(trees).
 
I plan on having Homeseer and Elk in my house. I spoke with the power company and they said they could drop a meter by the gate to get power to it, but I would have to pay roughly $20 extra a month as opposed to trenching a power line back to the gate from the house. I wonder how many months of meter service would equal the cost of a 1000' powerline/conduit and trenching cost. Anyway, I would like to be able to have the following:
 
1. Have a keypad/call box for visitors and be notified in the house/my smartphone.
2. Be able to open/close the gate from the house/my phone.
3. Open/close seamlessly for known occupants(perhaps Bluetooth using our phones).
4. Video viewing in house or phone(wishful here...I haven't seen anything like this).
 
I doubt a solar option to power everything would be likely so I guess I'm stuck with the $20 a month. I've read people suggesting to run fiber or Cat6 with repeaters, but like I said I'm really trying to avoid trenching. Not sure if a Wifi solution would work with the trees either. Thanks for any info.
 
 

 

[Del91574]

Your post isn't clear, but it sounds like you put in poles....
 
In that case, what's the big deal, put in the cable you need on them aerially....as long as you're below the HV crossbar, it's a non issue.
 
For HV, it's probably easier to do a local meter, but LV is a non-issue, assuming you're not planning on ethernet on a Cat XX. Fiber is the only reliable option at that sort of distance. For controls wiring, assuming the bulk is at the house, you're not going to be looking at voltage loss.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'd agree on this one - I'd just suck it up and use the poles since they're there so that this is a one-time thing.  Personally I'd look at a packaged gate control product and integrate whatever else you want from there.  I've worked a little with the Doorking units and they have camera options as well as the keypad and a phone interface at the other end.  You don't even necessarily need an analog phone - they have a mode to hook a standalone phone up in intercom mode even... or you could do something with SIP and give it an extension and give it the ability to call your cell phone, perhaps even do a video call to it with some creativity.
 
Once you have the basics in, you'll have the ability to add other triggers as well - like a Flash2Pass or there's some newer bluetooth detection or even RFID stuff.  I've even thought about license-plate reading cameras which would be easy to implement, but also easy to trick.
 
I'd definitely also ensure there's a method to hook into the Elk - that way if there's a triggered fire, burglar, or medical alarm - the gate can be opened automatically for emergency personnel - and that gives you yet another access method, via elkdroid or HS or eKeypad - whatever talks to the Elk.
 
Let us know where you're leaning and we can help you nail it down.

 

[riverhawk]

Yes, to be more clear, I do have poles installed. However, I was specifically told I was not allowed to run my wires on "their" poles. Even though I paid for them and they are on my land, the electric company said that when I asked.

Because of that, I'd really like a wireless solution getting my controls and communication onto my home network so my Elk/Homeseer can handle events. The trees might be an issue though(about 500 feet of trees).

 

[apostolakisl]

Yes, to be more clear, I do have poles installed. However, I was specifically told I was not allowed to run my wires on "their" poles. Even though I paid for them and they are on my land, the electric company said that when I asked.

Because of that, I'd really like a wireless solution getting my controls and communication onto my home network so my Elk/Homeseer can handle events. The trees might be an issue though(about 500 feet of trees).

 
The "pole police" might come and get ya.   :blink:
 
Seriously, do you think they are going to check?  The ATT guys were putting in my uverse and said, "we aren't allowed to do that (running wires in certain places), but we do it anyway."  And that is on the street poles.  Maybe your utility is more strict?

 

[az1324]

Do you have good cell service there?  This would be a nice android phone based project.  And it should not be too hard to keep the phone running in standby mode with a solar panel, extra battery.

 

[riverhawk]

 
The "pole police" might come and get ya.   :blink:
 
Seriously, do you think they are going to check?  The ATT guys were putting in my uverse and said, "we aren't allowed to do that (running wires in certain places), but we do it anyway."  And that is on the street poles.  Maybe your utility is more strict?

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it's better to ask for forgiveness then for permission. I'll take it down if I get busted if I go down this scenario.

 

[riverhawk]

Do you have good cell service there?  This would be a nice android phone based project.  And it should not be too hard to keep the phone running in standby mode with a solar panel, extra battery.

Cell service is good, but I'm not looking to commit to an uncharted Android project.

I know the electric companies have RF meters that can be checked 1/2 mile away...is there anything similar for a gate solution? I don't expect video to work well over RF so just some control/notification/gate state would suffice.

I'm thinking this would be cheaper then running fiber anyway.

 

[az1324]

Look at ubiquiti bullet with parabolic antennas.

 

[apostolakisl]

Cell service is good, but I'm not looking to commit to an uncharted Android project.

I know the electric companies have RF meters that can be checked 1/2 mile away...is there anything similar for a gate solution? I don't expect video to work well over RF so just some control/notification/gate state would suffice.

I'm thinking this would be cheaper then running fiber anyway.

 
RF relays can work that far if you have the right one and clear line of sight.  Trouble is you don't get any feedback confirmation.  Although I suppose you could have the relay activate a return radio message to a relay back at the house for confirmation.  Also, most of those are not encoded, but they do make them with rolling codes, just I haven't seen any long range ones with that feature.

 

[tmbrown97]

This is still doable - there's just a couple things to work out:
 
Power:
Either you use Solar at the gate, have the 2nd meter installed, or you run wires - either trench or aerial.  I'd try to get to the 3rd option for ease with the rest of the solutions.
 
If you're not going to run wires, traditional intercom/call boxes kinda go out the window.  At that point you can start getting creative...
 
 
I'd still put in a localized keypad for entry, along with a "call" button - but I think I'd start looking at something like a Mobotix camera that would have SIP and also have input (for the call button) and output (to trigger the gate opener);  I'd backhaul that with a couple 900mhz radios.  The camera with the built in SIP functions could bridge the gap for the intercom and remote control features I would imagine.
 
Then again, if you have Data, I guess maybe a CALL button intercom could come back into play - just do it over VOIP on that same 900mhz connection and have those parts mounted at the gate location.  An ATA and a free installation of 3CX could make that work - or get into more featured SIP systems if you want.
 
I think I'd also still want a vehicle detector and a contact sensor to know if the gate is open or closed, but that could be worked out separately.
 
Another thing to throw out is that some Linear long-range transmitters/receivers could allow for remote opening/closing and status as well.

 

[Del91574]

Who owns the poles? You or the Utility...that's the question, even if you paid to put them in. Check what the legalese is and then speak to who you need to regarding both your line voltage needs and the LV communications cable needs.
 
As long as you're compliant to code (below crossbar and grounded among other things) aerial cable is not a huge deal....it's no different than if the telco or CATV guys ran their cable on the pole for your house.....
 
You can get long range items, but the end result is you're post alludes to the fact you're going to need power to run the gate (though they do have 12V units on the market) at a minimum, with the other items be the automation/controls end that you want to drive from the house
 
For what I believe you're going to need for your RF, you'd better start digging unless you go aerial.

 

[Del91574]

@ Work,

The loop detectors for presence and free egress are local to the gate operator and only need to be from the gate to the approach and egress sides. The contact sensors are commonly RF, even in high traffic applications with a 9V battery installed. Too much work and moving parts involved using a traveler cable.
 
Those Linears aren't cheap by a stretch of the imagination....not to mention how and where the receiver is going to be integrated and with which piece of hardware. The harder item is what is going to act as the hold open in the case of a burg or fire alarm....those linears aren't going to latch.

 

[tmbrown97]

I know the egress sensors are local to the gate - but I personally would like to know if a vehicle is sitting outside my gate, even if they don't press the call button, so if it were me I'd also have a driveway sensor separate from the gate to alert me... and I'd also want gate status of my own at the house, not just what the controller itself know about.  If there's a way to pull the status from the gate's own controls, obviously that's ideal.
 
Not sure which Linear you're referencing (I know they have several lines) - I was talking about something like the XT1 - would need a little more research to ensure it'd work for this, but according to the specs, as long as the transmitter is activated, it'll hold open at the receive end.  It'd cost around $500 but it's an option.
 
That said, if this were me, I'd want wire and I would've just trenched for both HV and LV... but what's done is done, so now the OP needs to figure out what he wants to do.

 

[riverhawk]

The amount of info and knowledge here is great, thanks.
So I think it's best I just run wire(power and communication) on the existing poles. Worst case, they make me take them down. I just spoke to Comcast and they plan on using the poles too(basically told me but to worry about the phone company).

Power:
1. Would a single 16 gauge running 800 feet be enough to power all my components(access box, sensors, gate operation)?
2. If not, would I need the power line somehow connected to a battery supplying the power?

Communication:
3. Would a single run of fiber be able to handle a camera feed, visitor call box, remote gate operation, sensor trigger feedback/status? In other words, can it be shared?
4. Would you do a single long run or daisy chain them?
5. If the fiber can be shared, would I need some type of hub that all components plug into on the gate side?
6. Do access boxes even come with Ethernet ports?
7. On the home side, would my Elk just see all the events and communication and deal with it assuming the fiber is hooked into the same network?

Thanks again for the help.