Copper-clad aluminum cable passed off as legitimate
- Thread starter pete_c
- Start date
Your posts about CCA cable got me to do some searching on the subject. I couldn't find anything that says UL specifically excludes CCA wire from being UL Listed. (That doesn't mean there isn't something that I might have missed.)
UL is primarily a safety organization and is concerned about fire and electrical safety. They don't care whether a cable meets the frequency specs of Cat5e/Cat6. Just that it is safe.
However, the NEC says that all data communications cable "shall be copper." But the NEC doesn't control the manufacturing of cable, just where it can be used in many/most jurisdictions.
Aluminum wire has a greater resistance than copper wire. So if you are carrying power over a Cat cable for POE, that extra resistance might matter and might cause the cable to overheat. And that might raise concern with UL.
Nothing I could find says that there is any standard for CCA cable. One manufacturer claimed that their CCA cable was "better" because it contained 25% copper, vs as little as 5% in other brands of cable.
UL also worries about smoke and fumes that a cable gives off during a fire. Some CCA cables appear to exceed the limits for that.
So I'll guess that the reason CCA cable doesn't carry a valid UL label is the result of several factors:
1. The manufacturers know that their CCA cable won't meet the requirements for one or more standard.
2. The manufacturers are cheap and don't care to spend the time or money in trying to obtain a UL listing.
The flip side of this is that any manufacturer that cares enough about the safety of their cable to get a UL listing, also cares enough about other aspects of quality and uses solid copper.
Here's a good presentation I found on the subject.
UL is primarily a safety organization and is concerned about fire and electrical safety. They don't care whether a cable meets the frequency specs of Cat5e/Cat6. Just that it is safe.
However, the NEC says that all data communications cable "shall be copper." But the NEC doesn't control the manufacturing of cable, just where it can be used in many/most jurisdictions.
Aluminum wire has a greater resistance than copper wire. So if you are carrying power over a Cat cable for POE, that extra resistance might matter and might cause the cable to overheat. And that might raise concern with UL.
Nothing I could find says that there is any standard for CCA cable. One manufacturer claimed that their CCA cable was "better" because it contained 25% copper, vs as little as 5% in other brands of cable.
UL also worries about smoke and fumes that a cable gives off during a fire. Some CCA cables appear to exceed the limits for that.
So I'll guess that the reason CCA cable doesn't carry a valid UL label is the result of several factors:
1. The manufacturers know that their CCA cable won't meet the requirements for one or more standard.
2. The manufacturers are cheap and don't care to spend the time or money in trying to obtain a UL listing.
The flip side of this is that any manufacturer that cares enough about the safety of their cable to get a UL listing, also cares enough about other aspects of quality and uses solid copper.
Here's a good presentation I found on the subject.
NeverDie
Senior Member
According to page 14 of UL's marking document (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CD8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ul.com%2Fglobal%2Fdocuments%2Fofferings%2Fperspectives%2Fregulators%2Felectrical%2Fnewsletters%2FW%26CMG_April2007_Final.pdf&ei=zfB4U_iqKseRqgb8oYDgCQ&usg=AFQjCNHEg58sLI4AzGnvftxBtoMQanpNcA&bvm=bv.66917471,d.b2k), a CMR product is required to have the UL marking (UL in parenthesis or UL in a circle) on the product. However, my alleged CMR cable from amazon doesn't have that marketing. Hence, I'm now doubting whether it actually is a CMR cable.
Therefore, I'm going to de-install the cable and replace it with this Monoprice Cat6 cable:
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-1000-Feet-500MHz-Ethernet-108105/dp/B008I8AF88/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1400437412&sr=8-2&keywords=green+cat6+cable+monoprice
Judging from the photo, at least it has the UL marking that's required for a CMR cable.
Regarding CCA, it occurs to me that patch cables are a ripe target for counterfeiters, as most people will never have occasion to cut or otherwise check the wires inside the cable. At least with bulk cat cable, it's not too hard to scrape test the conductors to verify that they aren't CCA.
Who would have thought that buying cat5/6 would require so much due diligence? What a world we live in!
Therefore, I'm going to de-install the cable and replace it with this Monoprice Cat6 cable:
http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-1000-Feet-500MHz-Ethernet-108105/dp/B008I8AF88/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1400437412&sr=8-2&keywords=green+cat6+cable+monoprice
Judging from the photo, at least it has the UL marking that's required for a CMR cable.
Regarding CCA, it occurs to me that patch cables are a ripe target for counterfeiters, as most people will never have occasion to cut or otherwise check the wires inside the cable. At least with bulk cat cable, it's not too hard to scrape test the conductors to verify that they aren't CCA.
Who would have thought that buying cat5/6 would require so much due diligence? What a world we live in!
NeverDie said:
Note that CMR is a safety rating that has to do with preventing the spread of fire in a riser. I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean that the cable is solid copper and not CCA.
Certainly, some of the manufacturers have no problem with lying about the specs for their products, whether it is claiming it is CMR or CMP, or UL Listed.
In perusing cable for sale on eBay and Amazon, my conclusion is that pretty much all of the cheap stuff is CCA. Solid copper costs at least 2x as much.
From what other buyers say, I think you can trust the Monoprice cable to be solid copper and not CCA. I'd be curious to know whether it carries the holographic UL label. I don't see one in the picture.
pete_c
Guru
Yup; here is where I went looking (years ago) for deals on spools of cable from say Anixter. Looked earlier this morning and see Belden cable there. (pile of box o's)
Difficult though to find deals other than purchasing a left over box used on project that was only slightly utilized. (like a 1000 ft box with some 700 ft left in it).
I haven't purchased CatXX in 1000ft bulk from Monoprice. I have though purchased 16/2 and 16/4 speaker wire and it "looks" pretty good; but its stranded wire versus solid core.
I did purchase some cat6 patch cables from Monoprice and quality was good. A bit more stiff than I was used to. They were all with hooded ends though and that part is a bit of a PITA.
Typically here though go directly to the MonoPrice website. Its pretty quick and the order process is simple and quick. Not sure how its set up in Amazon (whether its a direct purchase from MonoPrice).
Interesting recently had a "little discussion" with the Snap sales guy about web based sales companies (no salesmen) and how much I purchase from Monoprice these days. Personally here still like to place an order while talking to a salesperson; but those days are numbered as sometimes I think I put orders together whenever I think about them; and that could be 2 AM in the morning.
Difficult though to find deals other than purchasing a left over box used on project that was only slightly utilized. (like a 1000 ft box with some 700 ft left in it).
I haven't purchased CatXX in 1000ft bulk from Monoprice. I have though purchased 16/2 and 16/4 speaker wire and it "looks" pretty good; but its stranded wire versus solid core.
I did purchase some cat6 patch cables from Monoprice and quality was good. A bit more stiff than I was used to. They were all with hooded ends though and that part is a bit of a PITA.
Typically here though go directly to the MonoPrice website. Its pretty quick and the order process is simple and quick. Not sure how its set up in Amazon (whether its a direct purchase from MonoPrice).
Interesting recently had a "little discussion" with the Snap sales guy about web based sales companies (no salesmen) and how much I purchase from Monoprice these days. Personally here still like to place an order while talking to a salesperson; but those days are numbered as sometimes I think I put orders together whenever I think about them; and that could be 2 AM in the morning.
NeverDie
Senior Member
RAL said:
Even though cheap pricing most likely is a signature for CCA, unfortunately the inverse isn't true. The fishy cable that I'll be deinstalling was priced about the same as 100% copper cabling. By the way, it didn't have any holograms either.
RAL said:
I'm curious about that as well. Is the hologram supposed to be affixed to the cable, or to the box? I'm guessing the former, as otherwise someone could switch the box contents.
Which brands for CatXX cable are most trustworthy? Improper UL labeling may only help weed out idiot counterfeiters, but not the counterfeiters more skilled at avoiding detection. I bet even holograms could be counterfeited well enough to fool most people, if not everyone.
NeverDie
Senior Member
pete_c said:
You can get it both ways: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B008I8AF88/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
I went with Prime delivery, because I wanted it as soon as possible. Every day my attic gets hotter, and so the sooner I'm done pulling the cable, the less sweat on my brow. I'm unhappy about de-installing the fishy cable, but better to do it now as a precaution than later out of necessity, when the attic may be scorching.
NeverDie said:
The holographic label is on the outside of the box. It is about 1.5" high and 2" wide. You can see an example in this eBay auction picture
As to brands, my own research has led me to believe that the safest bet is cable from a reputable US manufacturer. Brands that look trustworthy to me are Signal, General Cable (GenSpeed), Coleman Cable (CCI), Paige, Standard Wire and Cable Company, and Structured Cable Products (SCP). Maybe some other folks can add to the list.
For a while, I was thinking that it would be safe to buy cable at Home Depot. But you can't even trust the made-in-China brands they sell.
https://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2013/Home-Depot-Recalls-CE-Tech-Riser-Cable/
I agree that the holograms could be counterfeited. To combat that, I've read that there is a smartphone app that lets you check the registration number on the individual hologram on each box to see if it is legit.
NeverDie
Senior Member
It turns out UL has an authenticator card you can order that allegedly can differentiate between real UL holograms and fake holograms:
http://www.rj45s.com/UL_Authenticator_Card.html
http://www.cccassoc.org/blog/ul-holographic-label-authenticator/
"The card has a special window on it. When moved across the special UL logo made with color-shifting ink, the UL should appear and disappear."
UL requires holograms on communication cables because UL has found that they are frequently counterfeited. Home Depot sold 11 million feet of counterfeit riser cable before anyone noticed and a recall was announced. It was allegedly a fire hazard.
http://www.rj45s.com/UL_Authenticator_Card.html
http://www.cccassoc.org/blog/ul-holographic-label-authenticator/
"The card has a special window on it. When moved across the special UL logo made with color-shifting ink, the UL should appear and disappear."
UL requires holograms on communication cables because UL has found that they are frequently counterfeited. Home Depot sold 11 million feet of counterfeit riser cable before anyone noticed and a recall was announced. It was allegedly a fire hazard.
This is the gospel. I'll add ICC, Siemon, Honeywell/Genesis, Remy, and I'm sure I have a few others on the line card.RAL said:
You buy the cheapest from where you can find it and not the big name manufacturers that stand by the product...well, this is what you get. If you gamble economics and the place where the cables are built, you need to be prepared for the consequences.
CCA also has the oxidation and dissimilar metal problem....big issue with IDC type connectors.
