CQC Pricing Thread

[noshali]

noshali, There is now a demo of MainLobby 3 / MainLobby Server 3 available. I would be curious if you have any reliability issues. I have not heard of a reliability issue since MainLobby Server 3 was released.

DavidL

I never mentioned any stability issues with Main Lobby. I said the reason was HS and at the time the cost of each driver and graphic libraries was beyond my budget.

Look at any of my posts in any of the forums and you will never see me bashing any product and specifically ML as I never felt that any of the products was bad. With HS which I was planning to integrate with ML, I had to reboot my pc every day and then it would hang. I tried it on multiple PCs and would hang every night so I gave up and hence ML as a result of that.

I still think that ML is a great product. Like I said earlier all products are good it just boils down to what suits ones needs.

regards,

 

[upstatemike]

OTOH, the professional installation world is billions per year. Even a small slice of that pie is enough to sustain a reasonably sized company...

And yet when I look for Syracuse based companies doing professional Home Automation work I always come up empty. I can't find even one!

Where is all this business that sustains the professional installation world located?

 

[smee]

OTOH, the professional installation world is billions per year. Even a small slice of that pie is enough to sustain a reasonably sized company...

And yet when I look for Syracuse based companies doing professional Home Automation work I always come up empty. I can't find even one!

Where is all this business that sustains the professional installation world located?

At the prices they apparently charge, maybe they fly representatives to your house from wherever they are located. They don't need to be local.

 

[IVB]

Dean

I truly wish you good luck in your new business model, but a saying keeps repeating in the back of my head.

Sell To The Masses, Live With The Rich
Sell To The Rich, Live With The Masses

In the HA market, I'm not sure who qualifies as the masses or the Rich.

lz

As someone who's been involved with sales for 10+years now, let me tell you that nothing could be further from the truth. Everyone always forgets the length of the sales cycle when determining price.

For something like HA, there's definitely a long sales cycle. People are already saying 30 days is too short, my god it's only a $500-$900 product (now). Are you seriously saying that you want 30-45 days of assistance to setup CQC, probably 5-10 hours at LEAST of support time to set this up, after which you'll part with $315 of your money? So the total upside is $60/hour for support, and build the product for free in his spare time?

The decision each business owner needs to make is this:
How long to build the product, how long is the sales cycle per new customer, what do I need to make in order to pay the bills, how much should I charge?

 

[TCassio]

If I read this thread correctly "the Pro's are complaining about the price". Weel this seems to be a theme, Cinemar used the same justification to raise prices. I say that its the pros problem to justify what they charge, not the manuf. I was seriuously considering CQC at $315 but at $895 its no longer a consideration.

This whole HA industry seems to be built by the DIY'ers who do all the field testing and debugging for the people at CQC, Homeseer, Cinemar and the rest. When these companies finally get a decent product the say thank you to the DIY market by pricing there product so high that it is now out of reach.

I would not mind paying an annual maintenance fee, but $900 up front and then another $100 per year, NO THANKS.

 

[jeffx]

And yet when I look for Syracuse based companies doing professional Home Automation work I always come up empty. I can't find even one!

Where is all this business that sustains the professional installation world located?

What about http://www.priorityconnections.com/ in Cicero, NY?

 

[Dean Roddey]

This whole HA industry seems to be built by the DIY'ers who do all the field testing and debugging for the people at CQC, Homeseer, Cinemar and the rest. When these companies finally get a decent product the say thank you to the DIY market by pricing there product so high that it is now out of reach.

Well, to be fair, we have never put out buggy product to let our customers figure out the problems in the field. Every single release since 1.0 has been solid and all but trouble free except for the occasional pathological environmental issue that had to be worked out for a customer here and there. We've bent over backwards to help our customers, written lots of drivers for free for them, and so forth. We've provided as good a return for the price as any company in the world, IMO.

Also, we didn't do what some have done and build a product on DIY work, and then go commercial with it. Our product has been commercial from day one and we were always up front about that.

 

[toymaster458]

If I read this thread correctly "the Pro's are complaining about the price". Weel this seems to be a theme, Cinemar used the same justification to raise prices. I say that its the pros problem to justify what they charge, not the manuf. I was seriuously considering CQC at $315 but at $895 its no longer a consideration.

This whole HA industry seems to be built by the DIY'ers who do all the field testing and debugging for the people at CQC, Homeseer, Cinemar and the rest. When these companies finally get a decent product the say thank you to the DIY market by pricing there product so high that it is now out of reach.

I ride both side of the fence, DIY and Professonal. The MSRP of the Full Integrator Version of CQC is $2,635 with Media Services and $1,594 with out. So looking at those prices getting the Full DIY version with media at $895 is 1/3 of the cost. That is a deal and a thank you to the DIY market. With CQC primary focus to the professional market, DIY'ers are able to use a professional based product in their home with out purchasing from authorized installers. Not only are DIY'ers getting better pricing then the Integrators for the same product but also have components that they can choose to purchase or not as we do not and only have the two choices above.

If I presented you a quote for a CQC Server for $3200 and you went on the Internet and see that the DIY verson goes for $315, I am sure you would think I am crazy for trying to sell you a computer and $315 dollers worth of software for $3200. Out of that $3200 I am only getting an average profit level, nothing compared to other products in the same field so there is no way I can add any added valued services to make it look better. I have been questioned on this every time except once!

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I would be curious if you have any reliability issues.  I have not heard of a reliability issue since MainLobby Server 3 was released.

Not exactly relliability issues, but I still consider MainLobby3 is in "Beta" mode IMHO! :blink:

 

[upstatemike]

And yet when I look for Syracuse based companies doing professional Home Automation work I always come up empty. I can't find even one!

Where is all this business that sustains the professional installation world located?

What about http://www.priorityconnections.com/ in Cicero, NY?

I think they are mainly a home theater shop that also does a little with phones and IP cameras. It looks like they are dealers for HAI and Elan but I wonder how much business they do in those products?

An interesting company. I wonder if they are hiring? I wonder if they ever visit CocoonTech?

 

[Ripper99]

As a owner of CQC, Cinemar, Homeseer I can say quite honestly why I settle with CQC..its all about reliability and support..CQC has never let me down yet while both Homeseer and Mainlobby I had many problems with and quite frankly when Mainlobby went like 8 months without a update after I bought it with excuse after excuse I knew it wasn't a company I wanted to stick with long term.

Over 100 device drivers are included with CQC..if you purchase Mainlobby be sure you factor in all the costs to control your Russound, Elk etc etc if you own that stuff.

I found it pretty despicable when Cinemar removed links to the old Russound driver and others that worked fine and instead offered a driver you had to buy ,when I made mention of this on the forums my posts were deleted by David..along with many other posts I made asking exactly when the new updates would be released.

A good example was Musiclobby..you can search the Cinemar forums last year and see me asking for updates and all the hype around xmas 2005 saying something was *Coming soon*...then the EHX show happened in what February/March and yet again Musiclobby3 would be *Coming soon*...here we are now in August 2007 and the product still isn't officially released, sure you can claim its done and the documentation is being written but perhaps you should have been writing the documentation all the months you said it was *Coming Soon*?

As someone who has used CQC since about February I can honestly say the same sort of configuration I had with Mainlobby runs much more reliably than Mainlobby ever did, Musiclobby ran very slow trying to control my 1100 CD's and with not many other users with the same amount of CD's well it looked like I was the only one complaining I'm sure...regardless CQC can whip through my collection at light speed with no slowdowns and the buttons I can make any size, perhaps Musiclobby has improved but from June 2005 till February 2006 they never fixed the problem and probably could have cared less as I was the only one complaining that had that many albums.

I see alot of people complaining about the price, do the math and add up all the drivers you are gonna need to buy after you buy a base package and you will soon realize CQC is the better deal in the long run...I know I can honestly say with CQC you actually get what you pay for and it runs reliably and you won't be waiting 6 months or more for Dean to upgrade the core product...I have probably mentioned at least 10 features or fix's I needed in CQC since owning it and all but one of them was added within a month..the next one which is Artist names above album covers should be coming in the next release.

Another thing you may also want to consider is the reliance on 3rd party applications such as Jriver media center , CQC has moved away from this and will have its own repository which will allow you to rip your CD's and have them added to your collection...more than once Jriver released updates which naturally most people do when an upgrade is offered but unfortunately it ended up killing the cover art in Musiclobby...so basically if you plan to rely on 3rd party software to be integrated with a system that you intend to control your home look for future problems...CQC is already well on its way to eliminating Jriver and going with their own repository.

Do any other softwares currently offer automatic ripping of CD's from a touchscreen that *actually works* ...if so it isn't free and that's why Dean is charging for it.

*Another problem for some users with the release of the new UMPC devices is fonts, while some could care less about fonts it should be noted with Mainlobby the fonts are built into the product and you cannot add your own fonts or use fonts other than what they provide you, so if your looking for any sort of pixel font for a small screen they need to include it in the product and if the fonts arent free then you might also be charged for a "Font pack" ...CQC on the other hand allows you to use any fonts in your template designs.

This post in no way is meant to say CQC is better than Mainlobby, they both have a great product but after using both I have no doubts which is the more reliable and better supported product after using both for at least 6 months and can say without a doubt that support and stability and actual updates to a product is what counts when I'm planning on something to control my home and media reliably.

BTW I am a DIY and not a CI and in the past have owned Crestron gear...after using Homeseer, Cinemar and CQC I can say without a doubt that CQC is the closest to Crestron/AMX reliabilty and features and that is what I am personally looking for.

I'm not at all interested in waiting 6 months or more for an update to fix bugs or make a product better that I just paid a few hundred for and I'm not one to pay for drivers unless they are custom and I need them, if one person pays for them or develops them for the community of users they should be free after that the same way CQC does things now.

In the end its up to you how you wish to spend your money...I know my investment in CQC was the right one and I have a reliable system since I started using it 6 months ago, the same cannot be said for the other products I invested my time and money into.

 

[DavidL]

BSR, It would be good (and appreciated) if you provided a bit of detail on that statement.
I am aware that you upgraded the MLServer without reading the release notes that say you also have to upgrade the client due to a new feature that was added (post launch) that required both sides to be updated. I do realize that this was a PITA for you. As an update, you are not the only one that didn't read the release notes. So, we will be adding a notice in the installer for that version that the client has to also be updated, when that is required to be a little more obvious.

If your definition of "beta" is about how many updates there have been, we will never be out of beta because we constantly update the product. Now, there was a dry spell last year due to the major upgrade that MainLobby 3 represented, and customers that purchased in that period might not have seen this update cycle. But, those that purchased before saw very regular feature (and sometimes bug fixes) updates as is planned for MainLobby 3. MLServer 3 is now on build 65 and the MainLobby 3 Client on build 17. Now, not all of those builds were released, but most were and were very trouble free.

I am not seeing evidence to your statement from the hundreds that have purchased MainLobby 3 (so far). What you read on the forum is a small subset.

EDIT, Ah, our good friend Mr. Ripper....
You might notice that on the Homeseer board, one MainLobby customer asked if a font was supported, and two days later a new build of MainLobby client was released with that font included. BTW, there hasn't been a request that I can remember that wasn't added with the next release.

You fell into the update cycle spoken of above.

Your posts were deleted because they were non value added to the Cinemar community and company. There have been essentially two customers that we have had to do that out of thousands. You are the first BTW.
EDITTT: Oh, BTW, we were torn to do that with you, because we saw you had the capability of being very sharing and are very talented, and quick frankly, werer were bothered that your posts turned so unproductive as your earlier ones (like your current ones of CQC) were so positive and helpful.

Regarding reliability, MainLobby 3 has had no reported incidents of reliability issues. If there are, they will be addressed, but no work today is going on with this because we are not aware of any issues today.

Most of your historic issues were regarding usage of your own graphics in MainLobby. You were so intent on arguing the issue, you never stopped to read on how easy it is to do that most of our customers do all the time. This is a non issue with 99%+ of Cinemar customers. The changes you felt were "absolutely necessary" are not even requested by almost all others, and the changes are architectural issues that might happen in a future major build update, but not in incremental updates. Sorry.

Regarding Media, you ain't seen nuthin yet. and yes, I fully expect you to say "promises, promises".

Bottom line, you jumped ship too quick, and CQC is a good alternative. Enjoy.

 

[toymaster458]

Toymaster, what automation are you looking for (using)? How do you know that MainLobby can't do it? Curious on specifics, as if it is important and worthwhile for others, it will be added. Thanx in advance for taking the time to let us know.

David,

The reason behind my statement that Homeseer is still needed in combination with MainLobby is continued post from you and other MainLobby users such as this

John, I still use Homeseer for things that aren't incorporated in MainLobby today.
Tom Caldwell's Shopping script w/ bar code integration
Local Movies / Theater showing
A few more things that aren't coming to mind.
It's all working super reliably and it's all fun. Why change?

True, I have moved most to MLServer 3, but that's what I need to do to test MainLobby 3 suite. Real world testing.

The nice thing is there aren't too many things I can think of that aren't possible with MainLobby and Homeseer, especially in combo.

I would realy have to seat down and better examine MainLobby Version 3. I know when I moved away from HomeSeer it was a choice of stay with Homeseer and and using MainLobby on top or find a all in one solution like CQC.

I am not saying that CQC is better then MainLobby3 because I have not used it. I just know CQC fits my needs better then MainLobby based on my research at the begining of the year. I am sure that many others disagree with me but that is why there are multiple solutions for a persons needs and wants.

 

[Ripper99]

Ah, our good friend Mr. Ripper....
You might notice that on the Homeseer board, one MainLobby customer asked if a font was supported, and two days later a new build of MainLobby client was released with that font included. BTW, there hasn't been a request that I can remember that wasn't added with the next release.

Actually I stopped considering you a freind after spending over $1000 with your company and you deleted my posts in your support forum.

As for the font issue..sheesh like I'm gonna beg you guys to add new fonts to Mainlobby, with CQC I have a choice of whatever fonts I want without asking.

I made many requests for fix's..unfortunatly none happened during my 8 months of using the product.

You fell into the update cycle spoken of above.

Yep..8 months no updates, good excuse though...had I actually stuck around it would be 12 months without a update to Mainlobby and Musiclobby is 13 months and counting.

Your posts were deleted because they were non value added to the Cinemar community and company. There have been essentially two customers that we have had to do that out of thousands. You are the first BTW.

Non value added? You're fricken delusional..I was asking for support and release dates and you deleted my posts..enough said.

Oh, BTW, we were torn to do that with you, because we saw you had the capability of being very sharing and are very talented, and quick frankly, werer were bothered that your posts turned so unproductive as your earlier ones (like your current ones of CQC) were so positive and helpful.

Yep I shared and offered many free graphics but it seemed your company didn't like the fact I offered to provide free graphic librarys that would be of the same quality as the ones you sold, as mentioned Mario ignored my e-mail about this and probably seen me as a threat to his graphic pack income..enough said

Regarding reliability, MainLobby 3 has had no reported incidents of reliability issues. If there are, they will be addressed, but no work today is going on with this because we are not aware of any issues today.

Hmm I swear I've read of some since it was released, I highly doubt all of a sudden you created some miracle product with no issues, I'll let the users comment on that instead of taking your word for it.

Most of your historic issues were regarding usage of your own graphics in MainLobby. You were so intent on arguing the issue, you never stopped to read on how easy it is to do that most of our customers do all the time.

It actually took 6 months or more for you to actually take the time out of your busy day posting on forums to let me know...try not to shift the blame on me.. I asked many times and specifically stated what my problems were and you could have easily resolved it long ahead of time.

This is a non issue with 99%+ of Cinemar customers. The changes you felt were "absolutely necessary" are not even requested by almost all others, and the changes are architectural issues that might happen in a future major build update, but not in incremental updates. Sorry.

Well I never even got *ONE* incremental update so I wouldn't know...so now that you have made a major release are some of those things included or will that happen maybe next year..or the year after?

Regarding Media, you ain't seen nuthin yet. and yes, I fully expect you to say "promises, promises".

Actually I expected you to say "Coming Soon" like you did for the past year...when I actually see it and people are using it other than beta users than maybe you can gloat about it, until that day its just vaporware.

Bottom line, you jumped ship too quick, and CQC is a good alternative. Enjoy.

hahaha David thats a good one, did you really expect me to wait longer than the 8 months I had already waited for updates?...in fact its August 2007 so both Mainlobby and Musiclobby for me went without updates since I purchased in June 2006 and anybody else that purchased around that time waited for a year now... a year without updates and you think people should stick around and have faith in you and your product.

Someone would have to be an idiot to go without updates to buggy components they bought and then actually agree to pay for a new product based on your past updates as well as the way you deleted my posts..keep dreaming.

and CQC is a good alternative

Actually its the better alternative

 

[DavidL]

toymaster,
Guaranteed, I would use Homeseer in combination with CQC as well as CQC doesn't do it all either. Neither does Homeseer, neither does MainLobby.

Just taking the two examples I posted:
Does CQC allow for barcode entry of products to buy in a shopping list and does an inventory search for the product name and maintain a listing of kitchen supplies? neither does Mainlobby, but there is a very nice user contributed script in Homeseer that does just that. Now, that could be coded for MainLobby, and probably would be down the road (KitchenLobby), but it doesn't exist in MainLobby today, so the script thar runs in Homeseer has value to me.

Second example: Can CQC today tell me what movies are playing in my local cinema? Same as above.

My point is not to diss CQC or any other product. It's to provide example that none of these products "do everything". There are some nice features that each do, and when the products are open, and the business management is open too, then the end user gets choice and capability. Of course they have to purchase that capability too. But, I am one that the software is the least expensive of all of the portions of the overall system (and highest value) so never minded spending the money on software or updates.

MainLobby doesn't require Homeseer. That has been a misconception spread by competitive product advocates. But, MainLobby is better with Homeseer than without. So would CQC, but that isn't an option today, so CQC users don't have that option, so CQC users miss out on things like Voice Recognition (and much more). Oh, and Homeseer users don't have the option to use CQC either and the benefits that CQC has. CQC would also be niftier with MainLobby too. I suspect visa versa too.

Ripper,
agree to disagree, on all points. Done.

So,