Current M1G cellular backup recommendations`

ecborgoyn

Active Member
I have an Elk M1G panel.  AlarmRelay monitoring.  Currently using POTS copper line for reporting.  Plan to add internet monitoring in addition to telephone line.  (Moving from copper to FiOS service).
 
What are the current recommendations for a cellular 'modem' alarm reporting device?  Uplink?  Telguard?  Prefer a better integration than 'dial capture' and 'bell monitoring'.  I like the integrated approach that Uplink + a serial interface can provide.
 
Thoughts?  I haven't asked this question in this forum recently....   Not sure if/when I'll move to a cellular backup.  The current M1 panel is in a lower-level room (mostly below grade) that has very poor cellular coverage.  My plan is to install a 'can' with the cellular device in a second floor closet (along with P/S and some zone expansion boards).  The zone expansion would serve some new smoke and CO2 sensors on the second floor of the house.  The cellular device would help to justify the new 'can' on the second floor...  At least to justify it to my wife.
 
Thanks.
 
 
I wouldn't go with an additional can unless wiring methods or routes dictate such.
 
That said, it depends on which carrier offers the better service in your area, CDMA or GSM and then move from there.
 
I just recently completed my Elk install and based on some recommendations here I went with the Uplink 4530ez which I have up and running with Alarm relay as a back up to IP monitoring over an M1XEP.   It was easy to install and get connected with Alarm Relay.
 
You say uplink 4530ez.. Looking at the uplink website.. Do you mean the 4530ex? Or the 4500ez?

And how do you have it interfaces to the panel? Dial capture?
 
The 4500 would need a XSP and cable and is considerably more expensive than the 4530 by the time it's all said and done.
 
Anything that doesn't connect via serial (Uplink, AES, etc.) is going to be dialer capture.
 
Sorry it is the 4530ex, dialer capture. Got it based on Del's recommendation. Seems like it tells the station all it needs to and honestly being the backup seems just fine...Costs less than the 4500, m1xsp, and associated wiring.
 
It really comes down to service provider in the area and what you're comfortable with. The big item is anything dialer capture needs to have a STC relay output and connected to the host panel. Bad part of dialer capture is the panel will always remain happy as long as the cell is there, you need to supervise it.
 
There's at least 4 major providers of dialer capture units out there, both GSM and CDMA flavors (YMMV) then there's 2 serially connected options out there, AES and Uplink. AES will hands down blow away a cellular via 3rd party and also work in areas where there's no cell service. Downside is it's not going to be DIY friendly. So that leaves what method you're going to connect to the M1, what needs to be provided or considered and what service carrier you have.
 
When you say 'service provider' in the area, are you referring to Verizon/AT&T/etc.  Or Uplink, etc.  Does the 4500ez work on one particular carrier network?
 
The fundamental problem I have with dialer-capture is the extra data  conversions required.  You start with a digital alarm indication, convert it to a series of analog signals (DTMF with Contact ID) and then have the cellular device convert that back to a digital representation.  That's why I prefer the 4500ez <-> M1XSP route as it stays in the digital domain.  Or course at a cost.  I'm thinking about signal reliability.  I would then mount the M1XSP & Uplink device in an area of the house with decent cellular coverage (not in the below-grade basement with the M1G panel.  This would also allow me to keep the POTS connection if I choose.  At least for now, we will be keeping the POTS line.
 
I start to think (and worry) about multiple points of failure (including the need to battery backup more devices).  With copper POTS, it's only the panel (plus the crummy copper line...).  With POTS FiOS, it's the panel plus the ONT.  With network reporting, it's the panel, the M1XEP, the ONT, and the Router.  And with something like an Uplink, it's the panel, the Uplink, and perhaps the M1XSP.  Maybe I'm paranoid, but I look at the failure modes.
 
Anyway, thanks for the ideas.  I'm going to talk with AlarmRelay in order to understand their price to add cellular reporting.  And see what devices they recommend.
 
It's GSM or CDMA. The antennas and units are physically different. As far as which carrier is which, I can't remember off the top of my head (working on fleshing out a bunch of access system takeovers at work).
 
Your assumption about which method is inherently better is not a sound. If you're going to keep POTS, then the 4530 isn't going to be the unit. If you're going with anything other than copper POTS, get the alarm off the line. Plenty of issues that arise at that point. You're at a 4550 or CDMA50 at that point, then you would have your provider kill the phone line monitoring portion if you use it as a primary dialer unit.
 
If anything, dialer capture is just as robust, if not more so, than converting data. The panel transmits DTMF, not digital. The cell picks up DTMF, then ports via the cellular IP network and then from their head end, transmits either DTMF or straight IP.  The DTMF tones and signals are captured, just like the panel spoke to a CS receiver, then retransmitted. It's not like the data is converted from what format it's in, to serial, then transmitted, reconstituted, then transmitted to the CS in another format. From the service provider, either they're DTMF regenerated by Uplink to the CS or a direct IP port. (I want to say AR won't do the IP port or are not capable to do such).
 
If anything, the XSP and additional hardware adds more that can go wrong, including the errant XSP firmware (though Elk hasn't updated for a while, it's all within realm) compared to DTMF to transmission mode, back to DTMF or IP to the CS.
 
Keep in mind, this is what I do daily and I have sites that have their own CS receivers, line cards, IP receivers and automation software.
 
Just for info I have the trouble output on the 4530ex tied into a zone on the ELK to monitor it and the way Alarm relay monitors the system is that the 4530ex is not a backup per se in that the m1xsp and 4530ex both always send simultaneous dual reports to the station.
 
XEP for IP monitoring and dual reporting via the 4530 out the dialer port? I'd be curious as to how the data is getting to their automation.
 
Most CS' would bill for that amount of traffic or signals coming through. I'd at least suggest (if someone considering that route) to get 2 separate accounts so you'd be able to tell which account has problems and which communicator you would need to fix/investigate.
 
Last I heard, AR doesn't have TCP/IP porting from Uplink and they use dialer emulation, so there's definitely something with how their automation and receivers are getting the data to the template that would bother me.
 
Del I am honestly not sure,
 
When I set up the account with them they had me set both the XEP and the 4530 as primary dialers...I asked them shouldn't it be a backup and they said it could be set up that way but they just set them up both as primary and then receive duplicate signals on their end. They said they know which signals come from which device this way as well. I do pay more for dual path monitoring.
 
In RP do you have different account numbers for each path?
 
The only other way is on their end, if their automation software and line card has CID functionality, but that also requires additional concerns with the trunk line hunt group on their end. Judging from google earth with the location of their CS, my guess is they went simple.
 
Ok so in RP the account number for the 4530 has two 0's and then the same number as is in the account setup for the m1xep. So wether they see that as two different account numbers in the system I don't know. They did tell me when we set it up and tested it this way that their system expects to see the duplicate signals and if it doesn't then it alerts to that there may be a communication issue with one of the paths and would let me know so it could be addressed. Also it is using Contact Id as far as I know.
 
My best guess would be they're getting the IP data into their receiver and then having Uplink port via DTMF emulation and they're using CID on their receiver and automation head end. Ick.
 
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