Dimming - Bulb Technology

[drvnbysound]

As the market moves toward CFL/LED bulbs, I wanted to try and gather a current general consensus [if that's even possible]. I don't necessarily want this to become a protocol battle (e.g. Zwave vs. UPB vs. Insteon), but I understand that some dimmers only support CFL, while others support LED. So, I wanted to ask:
 
If you were able to start over today (dimmers + bulbs), which would you choose to use? Within the type you choose, is there a particular bulb that you prefer?
 
Background: I've read numerous threads from various people having issues with either dimmers, or bulbs and the respective compatibility. I'm trying to come up with a reasoning to use one over the other.

 

[tmbrown97]

I can only speak from my own experience - I'm still quite happy with my UPB installation using all Simply Automated switches.  I've been able to transition to LED without issue - I've tried a ton of bulbs and I can only recall one set that I had to return because of incompatibility - they were some crappy ones from Costco.  I have an assortment of Candleabra, PAR and regular bulbs - all dimming just fine.  I also just replaced some 2-pin square ballasted fluorescent fixtures (in my bathroom fan/light combos) with edison bases and Cree A19 bulbs and it was nice to be able to just open upstart, enable dimming and set a dim rate.
 
So far I'm most happy with the Cree bulbs from Home Depot - they're the most natural looking, have a good dimming range, and the price can't be beat.  I do have some wet-location cans that I plan to try the Utilitech fixtures for (recommended by someone else here); otherwise I'm sticking with Cree for now.  The fact that they're made in the US helps a bit too, and their new TW bulbs have the high CRI required to get CA subsidies.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I'll second Work2Play's input WRT both SA switches and Cree LEDs.
 
I have 50 or so Cree CR6 can lights, a few of the 4" versions and about 24 of the A19 bulbs.
With the exception of a pair of 4" lights, I have had no pulsing or other problems.  And I think that pair is too lightly loaded on the circuit.
 
Dimming and color are great.
 
I have some other brand LED candelabra "dimmable" bulbs in my carriage lamps outside.
The color is OK (2700K) but they do pulse when dimmed and there is UPB traffic.  (They don't pulse when on 100%).
I got those from Lowe's I'm not sure of the brand.

I have LED bar lights running off a 24VDC dimmable transformer for under cabinet lighting. The color and dimming performance are great, no pulsing. The dimming curve is truncated because of the transformer, 35 is full bright, but they dim all the way down to 1 and the steps between 35 and 1 are detectable. So I just recalibrated the links for those lights.
 
I run 3 couplers in a 3200 sqft house with two outbuildings (800 and 400 sqft respectively) and 3 electrical panels (200A main and two 100A sub panels).

 

[drvnbysound]

I'm not very familiar with the SA dimmers. Are they designed for LEDs, or are they incandescent dimmers that also work with the LED bulbs?

 

[Digger]

I'm not very familiar with the SA dimmers. Are they designed for LEDs, or are they incandescent dimmers that also work with the LED bulbs?

 
My SA switches are about 7 years old now.  That was before LED bulbs were even hitting the market.  So I "doubt" they were originally designed for LED bulbs but they work fine with any of the bulbs I have tried so far (dim nicely etc).  I have been migrating to LED bulbs for over a year now and no issues.  I love the Cree bulbs from HD as well and have over 20 already.  Every visit to HD I buy another one. 
 
In 7 years I have not had a single UPB switch fail (YMMV).  Most are SA but I have a few HAI and PCS switches as well.  PLC switches are probably not the best compared to RF Mesh switches (Zwave etc) but in my case they work.  Much better than Smart Home Insteon Technology that used to have a switch die every week or so (at least back in 2006).  "IF" I was starting from scratch today I would use Zwave though I admit.  The Zwave concept has much more room for growth.  I am actually installing a lot of Zwave outlets to form a nice mesh so that I can add Zwave devices that are not possible with UPB in the future.  The Intermatic Zwave Outlets are dirt cheap on eBay and for a couple hundred bucks every room in the house and a couple outside and you have a strong mesh to add other devices.  If you can place them where you would want to shut off power when you leave the house you can get a cost savings to. 

 

[drvnbysound]

My SA switches are about 7 years old now.  That was before LED bulbs were even hitting the market.  So I "doubt" they were originally designed for LED bulbs but they work fine with any of the bulbs I have tried so far (dim nicely etc).  I have been migrating to LED bulbs for over a year now and no issues.  I love the Cree bulbs from HD as well and have over 20 already.  Every visit to HD I buy another one. 
 
In 7 years I have not had a single UPB switch fail (YMMV).  Most are SA but I have a few HAI and PCS switches as well.  PLC switches are probably not the best compared to RF Mesh switches (Zwave etc) but in my case they work.  Much better than Smart Home Insteon Technology that used to have a switch die every week or so (at least back in 2006).  "IF" I was starting from scratch today I would use Zwave though I admit.  The Zwave concept has much more room for growth.  I am actually installing a lot of Zwave outlets to form a nice mesh so that I can add Zwave devices that are not possible with UPB in the future.  The Intermatic Zwave Outlets are dirt cheap on eBay and for a couple hundred bucks every room in the house and a couple outside and you have a strong mesh to add other devices.  If you can place them where you would want to shut off power when you leave the house you can get a cost savings to. 

 
I just had concern that I may need to look at specific LED/CFL dimmers, and was trying to determine what light technology would be best suited first. Glad to hear it doesn't sound that way at all. I'm recommending that a friend go with Zwave as well, for similar reasons; he wants various Zwave devices (e.g. door locks, thermostats, etc.) so it makes sense to utilize Zwave for lighting as well. Likely to just go with the Vizia RF+ line; they already had 2-way feedback, but it's doubly nice now that they (at least some devices) also support beaming now too.
 
Based on your (and the others above), I suppose I should have no real concern for compatibility between the Vizia RF+ incandescent dimmer and LED bulbs. I know that I'll probably only know for sure via testing, but at least it doesn't sound like it will be a problem...

 

[tmbrown97]

Z-Wave definitely appears to have more options available - my only concern was that it appears to need more ongoing "maintenance" with relearning the paths.  I don't have the firsthand experience to speak of this but it does sound like a pain.  With UPB, I've pretty much ignored it the last 2 years - and I've been able to take lamp/appliance modules out and throw them in a drawer most of the year, pulling them out only during holidays - and they just automatically work.

 

[drvnbysound]

I've got a Zwave network setup at my home and don't really have any issues with it WRT the network; but I don't remove any of my devices either. As you mention, if I were to remove modules, I may likely need to reprogram accordingly, but I have no plug-in modules installed ;-) so it's not an issue. 
 
I haven't tried any LED/CFL bulbs myself, hence the question...

 

[Digger]

Z-Wave definitely appears to have more options available - my only concern was that it appears to need more ongoing "maintenance" with relearning the paths.  I don't have the firsthand experience to speak of this but it does sound like a pain.  With UPB, I've pretty much ignored it the last 2 years - and I've been able to take lamp/appliance modules out and throw them in a drawer most of the year, pulling them out only during holidays - and they just automatically work.

 
Many of the controllers can be set to re-optimize a network automatically in the middle of the night.  I am still 90% UPB but since I am using Homeseer again I can mix and match all I want.  Just have to remember if Homeseer goes belly up again then I have nothing.

 

[tmbrown97]

Many of the controllers can be set to re-optimize a network automatically in the middle of the night.  

That is good to know - and probably makes a big difference!

 

[drvnbysound]

Many of the controllers can be set to re-optimize a network automatically in the middle of the night.

 
This is the first time I've heard of this. Any idea if this is possible with the VRC0P?

 

[Digger]

This is the first time I've heard of this. Any idea if this is possible with the VRC0P?

I know Homeseer and I believe the Micasa Controllers can be set to optimize.  I personally dont consider the VRCOP to be a controller but I guess it could be. 

 

[drvnbysound]

Splitting hairs a bit... but I don't consider Homeseer (e.g. HS3) to be a controller - it's software :blush:  What Zwave controller (hardware) are you using with it?
 
The VRC0P is a secondary Zwave controller. Mine is directly connected to my Elk (via XSLZW).

 

[Digger]

Splitting hairs a bit... but I don't consider Homeseer (e.g. HS3) to be a controller - it's software :blush:  What Zwave controller (hardware) are you using with it?
 
The VRC0P is a secondary Zwave controller. Mine is directly connected to my Elk (via XSLZW).

I am using the Hometroller with the Ztroller.  The Ztroller is kind of like the VRCOP it passes info from the Hometroller like the VRCOP passes info from whatever is connected to it such as the ELK in your case is the controller.and makes the decisions etc. like Homeseer does.