DIY alternative to Vantage Lighting

[burnrate]

I'm buying a new house that has just been drywalled. Its prewired for Vantage lighting, but this just consists of the early prewire bundled up in a panel - no fixtures, switches, or automation yet. And that panel is in a different location than the main low voltage closet. I can continue with the Vantage install or go a different way. I understand Vantage to be a good product, but I'd much prefer a system that I can manage myself (in my last home I installed HAI with UPB lighting).

I'm wondering if anyone here has addressed a similar situation. I ask because I've searched and I've not seen a DIY or homeowner-managed system that uses the same wiring scheme as Vantage. TIA!

 

[Del91574]

Vantage has some benefits, but the options lie in how the control circuit was wired and possible options for a different system. I'm assuming that the electrician ran the specific loads back to a location as well as the keypads.

 

[burnrate]

Vantage has some benefits, but the options lie in how the control circuit was wired and possible options for a different system. I'm assuming that the electrician ran the specific loads back to a location as well as the keypads.

Thanks for the reply. I'll post a pic of the panel and wires.

 

[Neurorad]

I haven't heard of anyone DIYing Vantage, but if you can strike a deal, the dealer may give you software and control. Without support, though, I envision a huge challenge. With the lighting already wired, and the drywall up, it may be your best choice.

Lutron HomeWorks would be another to consider. Similarly challenging to Vantage ('Dealer Only'), but at least I know of some people that have DIYed it. Search for posts here at cocoontech and at AVS from herdfan.

I don't know how Vantage controls are wired, i.e. what type(s) of cables have been run to keypad locations, so I'm not sure how easy the swap would be. Looks like Vantage and HomeWorks support wireless options.

With lighting, you may not be changing much over the years - lighting stays pretty constant. Changing scenes and integrating the lights with the alarm are the only ones I can think of. Of course, adding a whole-house controller would be the biggie.

A quick search shows that CQC (Charmed Quark) has some type of Vantage driver.
http://www.charmedquark.com/Web2/OldWebSite/Web/Support/Drivers/Lighting/VantageQ.htm

Certainly would be easy to call the Vantage dealer when it comes time to integrate with your control system. Expensive? Possibly - they just need to allow changes to the Vantage system, not do programming.

Edit - I don't know what it takes to become a Vantage dealer - might be worth a shot.

Edit #2 - I think CentraLite offers a system with home-run loads. And, being a smaller company, the dealer may be more amenable to striking a deal to give you control when they're done installing. Call all the local CentraLite dealers to discuss it.

Edit #3 - call ALL the local HomeWorks, Vantage, and CentraLite dealers to find one that will strike a deal.

 

[Del91574]

Vantage controls are generally wired in a 16/2 daisy chain, and if smart, the floor is wired continous with a feed and return going back to the main panel.

The only other similar that I can think of is HomeWorks, but it's basically the same as the Vantage.

Centralite is another, but will end up being far more expensive than the first two.

 

[DavidL]

Tallus developed a Vantage plugin for MainLobby. So, if you decided to move forward with a Vantage install, then you could add a PC based control system for the vantage controller.

 

[Neurorad]

Centralite is another, but will end up being far more expensive than the first two.

I was under the impression that money could be saved using CentraLite over Vantage or HomeWorks.

 

[Del91574]

I was under the impression that money could be saved using CentraLite over Vantage or HomeWorks.

Having just roughed a job with the electricians that bid Centralite to the Vantage and comparing both side by side, they themselves stated that it'd cost about 25% more to come in with a comparable panel to the Vantage product we were roughing for (they were running the loads to the Vantage panels, we did all the LV).

Maybe you're thinking of the Jetstream or similar, those products are more aligned for a retrofit/DIY based setup compared to a centralized load/keypad setup.

The hard part is the OP hasn't stated how the house was roughed in and what wiring is at the keypad locations, because if it's set up for a Vantage, then he's either going to have to stay with Vantage or in best case a Homeworks panel, if the wiring in place is adequate, otherwise more conductors or a Category cable is going to have to be pulled to the keypad locations. The best case would be for a Homeworks panel, if he has twisted shielded pair wiring and the maximum number of control points (keypads) weren't exceeeded or the guys that did the Vantage rough ran a complete loop with a feed and return to the load centers, so then the loop can be split into 2, provided the maximum #'s aren't exceeded. Either way, it's not going to be an easy thing to swap from one product's rough to another product's

 

[Neurorad]

I'm pretty sure the new HomeWorks QS offers wireless control options, so the wired keypads shouldn't be a technical problem. I don't know how much more expensive wireless would be, though.

 

[Del91574]

Those products are not really designed for a centralized load with a control circuit only. Even the RF keypads need 120V in the box for themselves, they're only RF to the load, so the OP is still limited by what wiring was pulled to the original keypad locations.

 

[Neurorad]

Pretty sure HomeWorks QS allows for centralized dimming; it's replacing HW8.

If a client wants to remove wall clutter, or use Lutron Architectural Style KPs, centralized dimming is the way to go. Or, put the dimmers/wallbox in a nearby closet.

HW QS supports 4 conductor cable to the keypads, and/or RF (with local 120V supply to the KP).

I bet there are more houses in the U.S. with centralized HomeWorks systems than Vantage and CentraLite put together.

 

[Del91574]

It'll give you centralized, but the issue is the lack of, or appropriate amount/type of wiring for the control circuits.

I agree with the Lutron, with how many installs are possibly out there, but the initial complaint is planning the installation and control circuits/keypads from the get go, with the appropriate engineering done, otherwise it won't work as intended. You can't make conductors appear or change type if the keypads were roughed for a specific control install which has wildly different specs and wiring methods compared to competitor's products.

QS supports centralized dimming, but in this case, the OP is going to be lacking the 4 conductor shielded cable at each keypad location, so the only other route would be RF, which a Vantage rough, by nature, isn't going to have 120V at the keypad locations. Vantage is roughed with a 2/16, either daisy or star topology. If he had a Lutron Homeworks rough, then he could possibly go with a Vantage, but in this case, I think he's going to be stuck.

 

[Westcojack]

@Burnrate

Did you get anywhere with your Vantage question? If not please post a photo of what is existing, we can help you. We are large Vantage dealers.