Do I Really Need Elk M1?

carempel

Member
We’re in the process of building our home, 3000 sq ft, single story, u-shaped. Right now, all the walls are open & we’ve started to wiring the lights. Concurrently, I’ve been working on designing our home automation system and last night I started wondering, do I really need Elk?

We’re going to use Insteon & the ISY-994i for all the lighting & controls.

For window treatments, I’m hoping to use Somfy motors, but still I’m still waiting to hear back from Automated Shades so it’s not yet confirmed. I contacted Elk & they told me that the M1 doesn’t directly communicate with any window treatments.

As for security, I’m planning on mounting 4 IP cameras (still undecided on the brand) on each corner of the house. None of the Elk compatible brands seem to have exceptional night time resolution or the ability to zoom. In addition to a NVR, I’d also like a modulator to connect the camera feed to the TV. -If anyone has any feedback on modulators &/or video-doorbells, I’d love to hear your thoughts.-

I don’t have plans for any motion sensors as we have two big Rottweiler/mutts that are a pretty good deterrent; besides, I think they would set the sensors off like it’s a carnival. I also don’t have any plans for window sensors as our windows are all casement & would have to be broken to get in. Maybe I should consider perimeter sensors….

Climate control was the big reason I was leaning towards Elk. We’re going to have 4 zones, which means 4 thermostats, which are generally ugly & wall clutter. I really like the Elk Navigator touch screen, it’s the only Elk keypad I would consider. I contacted Elk and they told me “The ELK-M1MPNAV allows you to view the temperature of supported thermostats but doesn’t support discrete control meaning you will not be able to adjust the temperature settings or mode.” I haven’t been able to find any thermostats with a sleek interface that are compatible with Elk, so at this time I’m leaning towards the Ecobee. As I understand, you can control any zone from any unit or from its native app. It’s only downfall is that it isn’t wired (cat5 style) & the units communicate via Wi-Fi.

I’m still thinking of other things to add/automate. As they say, over-kill is underrated.

I was really excited about Elk, but I just don’t see where it fits in. I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts & feedback on my design so far.
 
Did you consider an HAI OmniPro ? Looks to me that it has built in support for all the features you are looking at.

It doesn't sound like security is really much of a concern for you, but for automation purposes, you may want to consider it. I use all the door & window sensors of the security system as triggers for automation functions. Things like: Turning outside lights on when opening an exterior door at night. You could stop the AC unit from running in a certain zone if there are known windows or doors open. You could have a verbal keypad announcement tell you that you certain windows are open when you close the Somfy shades. You can have the garage lights turn on/off automatically as you enter/exit the garage. The list goes on and on, but the point is that security sensors are great tools to use in automation.
 
I should have mentioned, I want my system to be wired.

I really like the automate climate control you described. When I first started out on this path, I had visions of our drapes automatically closing as the temperature raised outside to avoid turning on the A/C; and an override function that wouldn't allow the A/C to be turned on if the windows were open. Then I talked to our window manufacturer & they warned against drilling into the windows as it would void the warranty. Are there wired sensors that work in casement windows that don't require drilling? how about for solid wood doors?

I never looked at HAI OmniPro, I'll start taking a look.
 
I control everything you mentioned using HomeSeer. When a room on the front of the house (south facing wall) gets above 78 degrees (monitored by one-wire temp sensors) I shut my blinds automatically. I've interfaced my Davis weather station to my HomeSeer PC which allows for all kinds of automation like disabling the sprinkler system when it rains or it's too windy. If you need a good security system the DSC system is very affordable as well. I have 3 thermostats controlled by HomeSeer as well and have touch screen control via our iPad and Android phones. So check out some of the software packages that include the touch screen interfaces and you may like these as well.
 
I'm sure there are several ways you could mount sensors for casement windows. It really depends on the exact window for how you might go about doing it. Solid doors can be drilled and have recessed contacts that you wouldn't even see.

Here's an example of one way to do contacts on casement windows without drilling: http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/15344-best-way-to-add-alarm-contacts-to-casement-windows/

Here's some info on the HAI lineup: http://www.homeauto.com/Products/HAISystems/OmniPro2/omnipro2_tech.asp
 
Rupp, I love the idea of everything you described, it's exactly what I had in mind. I day dream about hitting a button called "Movie" and the drapes close & the surround sound kicks on.

JonW, is all of that capable with OmniPro? I checked out the interface & love the touch screen, very sexy. I was especially excited when I saw that it could control my Nuvo music distribution system. Also, I did some googling & it seems it isn't compatible with Insteon, is that true???? We've already invested in the Insteon so that could be a deal killer.
 
Rupp, I love the idea of everything you described, it's exactly what I had in mind. I day dream about hitting a button called "Movie" and the drapes close & the surround sound kicks on.

JonW, is all of that capable with OmniPro? I checked out the interface & love the touch screen, very sexy. I was especially excited when I saw that it could control my Nuvo music distribution system. Also, I did some googling & it seems it isn't compatible with Insteon, is that true???? We've already invested in the Insteon so that could be a deal killer.
You know, Insteon has never been on my radar as a lighting technology, so I've never looked at it's ability to function with HAI. I know you could do the X-10 to Insteon route, but that probably eliminates some of the control features of Insteon. It is interesting that HAI doesn't support it.

Found an interesting read about HAI, Insteon & UPB: http://rickystechblog.wordpress.com/2012/03/29/x10-insteon-and-upb/
 
I contacted HAI and they said Insteon could work if in X10 format, but couldn't explain why or how to convert it to X10.

I then contacted SmartHome and they said that Insteon did used to work with X10 but was being slowly phased out. They suggested http://www.smarthome.com/12679/HomeSeer-HT-SE-PRO-HomeTroller-SE-PRO-Home-Automation-Controller/p.aspx, which will work with both Insteon & HAI. They also mentioned that I would need an Insteon PLM as well.

I don't understand how this controller would work with OmniPro when it's labelled for HomeSeer. Am I wrong in thinking that OmiPro is an equivalent of HomeSeer?
 
I wouldn't call the OmniPro and HomeSeer equivalents. The OmniPro is a full fledged security & automation system and the HomeSeer product is more of a PC based automation platform. The HomeSeer controller they linked you to is a stand-alone HomeSeer controller (embedded PC) so that you don't have to install it and run it on a computer in your house. I've never been a fan of the all software based solutions - especially HomeSeer. They've orphaned too many plug-ins over the years and their full-blown software is quite pricey for what you get - IMHO.

Having said that, you know the old saying, opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one. My opinion is that I prefer a hardware based automation platform that is not dependent on a PC. Others will argue that a PC based solution is just as reliable. I feel that HAI has done a good job at supporting 3rd party systems tied into the HAI controllers - it's just unfortunate that Insteon isn't one of the supported platforms.
 
I agree, I prefer something with strong hardware & I don't like anything that ties me to a brand. The basis of my design is I want each technology (security cameras, lights, audio/video, etc.) to have it's own platform, then I'd like to have something on top to bring it all together, like the OmniPro II. On top of that I'm going to use iRule (http://www.iruleathome.com) to build remotes on my phones & tablets to control it all. This way, if the wifi goes down & my phone doesn't work, I can still get up & press a button; seems the most fool proof.

Other than the Insteon issue, OmniPro II seemed perfect. I especially like that I centralize the thermostats & security cameras, and that I can build rules for climate control.
 
I totally agree with you on the separate systems with an overall controller to unite them. There is no single point of failure.

On the iPad/iPhone controllers, you might want to also check out the HAI HTX2 (rebranded Bitwise system).
http://www.homeauto.com/products/entertainment/htx.asp

I'm currently using Philips Pronto's and extenders, but will be switching to the HTX2 in the not-to-distant future.
 
If I can't solve the Insteon issue, do you think OmniPro is awesome enough that I go with it & just accept that I can't incorporate my lights or should I keep looking? Having never used a system before, I'm not sure how important it is to have everything integrated or whether it would just bug me.
 
For me, lighting is one of the core areas of my automation, so it would bug me too much not having it fully integrated. I love the fact that I can see the real-time status of each and every light in my home via the OmniPro and that so many of my lighting feature are automatic via automation triggers.

Out of curiousity, why did you choose Insteon?
 
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