Do I use Red cable for Keypads
- Thread starter abernut
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Ranger Digital
Active Member
What system? What keypads? I know of no keypads that require red cables but I don't do many varieties of keypads outside of HAI and URC.
I've ALWAYS used cat5. But, tell us what keypads and get a definitive answer.
I've ALWAYS used cat5. But, tell us what keypads and get a definitive answer.
At one point there was a requirement that all "critical" portions of the alarm had to be protected to the same level as the smokes, i.e. it makes no sense to require firewire to the smokes if burning through a less protected wire elsewere will disable the entire system. Some AHJs would interprete this as requiring firewire to the keypads, sirens, and power supplies.
With the number of keypads, touchscreens, etc that now use cat5, I'm not sure that argument holds water anymore. However, I've been out of the biz for a while now, so someone who's more current would be a better judge on that.
With the number of keypads, touchscreens, etc that now use cat5, I'm not sure that argument holds water anymore. However, I've been out of the biz for a while now, so someone who's more current would be a better judge on that.
It is definitely NOT a bad idea. If your bedroom starts on fire, and the smoke alarm hasn't gone off, wouldn't you like to know that if you went to the panel and pressed the fire panic button it would work? And it can't work if the fire has burned through the keypad wires. Siren and keypad buttons should be firewire. It costs just a small bit more than regular wiring, and its easier to add it from the start than to rip out wiring and install it later.
This article can get you started off on the right leg...
https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/nec-html/html/article760firealarmsignalingsystems~20030106.htm
Search for "Article 760" for more info.
This article can get you started off on the right leg...
https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/nec-html/html/article760firealarmsignalingsystems~20030106.htm
Search for "Article 760" for more info.
Ummm, fire alarm initiating circuits should really be run in 18 AWG FPL rated cable. There's no requirement to what color the jacket is....it can be purple, red, white, clear, whatever (I've seen all of the rainbow that were compliant).
There's some ambiguous code, but single conductors can't be less than 18 AWG. Items such as keypads to systems, sirens and transformer feeds don't technically need to be FPL cable unless the AHJ classifies them as part of a system and requires them to meet code for a FACP and not a combination panel. The more prudent way to roll is to run FPL or equivalent substitute for the system to avoid the grey areas and be universally compliant. Doesn't hurt and only helps improve the system.
There's some ambiguous code, but single conductors can't be less than 18 AWG. Items such as keypads to systems, sirens and transformer feeds don't technically need to be FPL cable unless the AHJ classifies them as part of a system and requires them to meet code for a FACP and not a combination panel. The more prudent way to roll is to run FPL or equivalent substitute for the system to avoid the grey areas and be universally compliant. Doesn't hurt and only helps improve the system.
Never been a manufacturing requirement to meet listing, strictly a code and enforcement issue locally as to what constitutes the system in it's entirety and to what extent would need to be FPL rated cabling....no different than some municipalities not allowing plug in system transformers and requiring hardwired units.
From a liability standpoint, if the only notification appliance is a siren/speaker attached to the system and not integral to the detector(s) themselves, would it be considered prudent...sure, but again, this starts getting into some grey areas again, because there is no specific requirement for the detectors to have integral sounders either, it's more of a what the AHJ would prefer vs. what is or was SOP. The only requirement is a dB level at pillow height or above ambient.
That said, to what extent the ancillary peripherals (keypads, siren/speakers, transformer wiring, data wiring between components, etc.) would benefit from the FPL cabling should be investigated and considered.
From a liability standpoint, if the only notification appliance is a siren/speaker attached to the system and not integral to the detector(s) themselves, would it be considered prudent...sure, but again, this starts getting into some grey areas again, because there is no specific requirement for the detectors to have integral sounders either, it's more of a what the AHJ would prefer vs. what is or was SOP. The only requirement is a dB level at pillow height or above ambient.
That said, to what extent the ancillary peripherals (keypads, siren/speakers, transformer wiring, data wiring between components, etc.) would benefit from the FPL cabling should be investigated and considered.
@ Work...never has been and never will be. Page 66 is all the regulatory statements. The only item that even comes close is the sounder, but it also states equivalent...which opens the door for a very large leeway that can bring the whole argument to use any siren or speaker that is listed for the purpose. Remember, the installation is not UL listed or certificated unless the parties involved have the underwriter come out to inspect and oversee the commissioning. I've been party to that affair many times. 99.5%+ of the installs out there are not listed or certificated.
@ Ano
Definitely not an upscale market.
Romex is not required to be color coded, nowhere is it said in code that romex jacketing must be colored. The colors were adopted to help the identification of the cable, that's it. Same goes for LV fire rated cabling, even the stuff installed in armor...that's only to help identify it in the wild, not a code requirement. Same holds true with certain LV cables and the only reason why red is universally viewed as fire cable is to help it's identification.....same argument can be held with many that hold the view that fire cabling can't be painted and that every box, cable, conduit and fitting must be red or identified....it's not called out anywhere....is it a good idea in practice and some installs, sure, but never required by code.
WWW.Windycitywire.com is a good example of a vendor that can supply almost everything under the sun. We have hundreds of miles of cabling that was just installed on a campus where the spec called for pepto bismol pink jacket on any security cabling, however it needed to meet FPLR and the interchange. We've also had to purchase cabling for access control that was put into a special binder wrap to meet spec where normal composite cabling did not. Really not an oddball or off the wall item. Remember the interchange and hierarchy of cables...FPL can be a CM cable also and vice versa.
@ Ano
Definitely not an upscale market.
Romex is not required to be color coded, nowhere is it said in code that romex jacketing must be colored. The colors were adopted to help the identification of the cable, that's it. Same goes for LV fire rated cabling, even the stuff installed in armor...that's only to help identify it in the wild, not a code requirement. Same holds true with certain LV cables and the only reason why red is universally viewed as fire cable is to help it's identification.....same argument can be held with many that hold the view that fire cabling can't be painted and that every box, cable, conduit and fitting must be red or identified....it's not called out anywhere....is it a good idea in practice and some installs, sure, but never required by code.
WWW.Windycitywire.com is a good example of a vendor that can supply almost everything under the sun. We have hundreds of miles of cabling that was just installed on a campus where the spec called for pepto bismol pink jacket on any security cabling, however it needed to meet FPLR and the interchange. We've also had to purchase cabling for access control that was put into a special binder wrap to meet spec where normal composite cabling did not. Really not an oddball or off the wall item. Remember the interchange and hierarchy of cables...FPL can be a CM cable also and vice versa.
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