I've been known to work with live wires before. Generally the only time I get shocked is when I am putting an outlet back into a box. It's so natural to reach around the sides to grab it and push it it. Those pesty screws (even when tighted all the way in) have been known to get me more than once. Better to use your palm and press the front of the outlet in the box!
Electrical Safety
- Thread starter dzirkelb
- Start date
pete_c
Guru
Typically when bending new conduit, installing new electric, pulling wire I do not go live until the very end. Live meaning connecting to electrical with breakers off
This speeds up a bit of the work.
A while back had a friend whom worked on electrical in Car Washes. He seems to enjoy the thrill of near death experiences. (think he was a bit odd sometimes).
This speeds up a bit of the work.
A while back had a friend whom worked on electrical in Car Washes. He seems to enjoy the thrill of near death experiences. (think he was a bit odd sometimes).
pete_c
Guru
This is another WAF for me and I would actually probably get shot by the wife if I shut off all of the electricity. This weekend I brought water out to the garage. I put shutoffs in the basement. I had the water off for about 2 hours.
I was asked more than once regarding "when will the water be turned on again?".
I was asked more than once regarding "when will the water be turned on again?".
mdesmarais
Active Member
I was pulling out some 220v electric heat once. . . turned off the breaker, then checked both wires to ground. One was still hot. . . WTF? Went back downstairs and pulled the cover off the breaker box. . . two 220v double breakers for electric heat right next to each other- each with one wire from two circuits.
I always kill the circuit, but I do work in the breaker box hot as I hate turning off the whole house. I just wire the breaker outside, then snap it in.
I always kill the circuit, but I do work in the breaker box hot as I hate turning off the whole house. I just wire the breaker outside, then snap it in.
Sandpiper
Active Member
Since we are speaking of electrical safety, I have tip to add.
It is possible, that even though the circuit you are working on is turned off at the breaker, it can still be come hot under certain circumstances. Specifically, when working on a multi-wire branch circuit this is possible. Multi-wire branch circuits are common in residential wiring. This type of circuit is used to save a tiny bit of wiring cost, because it uses the same neutral wire for two circuits. But the two circuits must be on opposite phases. By doing this, the neutral currents from the opposite phases cancel each other out instead of adding to each other, therefore preventing an overload in the neutral wire.
When working on this type of circuit, the neutral wire can become hot if disconnected, becoming energized from the opposite phased circuit through the load.
I have heard of many cases when people of been shocked, but did't understand why or how it could have happened.
EDIT: I just now realized that the NEC has changed the 2008 code to require breakers for both phases of a multi-wire branch circuit to be disconnected simultaneously. Besically this means it now requires a 2-pole breaker for these circuits. It is about time this change was made. Just realize that your home probably does not have the 2-pole breaker , but 2 single phase breakers instead for these circuits.
It is possible, that even though the circuit you are working on is turned off at the breaker, it can still be come hot under certain circumstances. Specifically, when working on a multi-wire branch circuit this is possible. Multi-wire branch circuits are common in residential wiring. This type of circuit is used to save a tiny bit of wiring cost, because it uses the same neutral wire for two circuits. But the two circuits must be on opposite phases. By doing this, the neutral currents from the opposite phases cancel each other out instead of adding to each other, therefore preventing an overload in the neutral wire.
When working on this type of circuit, the neutral wire can become hot if disconnected, becoming energized from the opposite phased circuit through the load.
I have heard of many cases when people of been shocked, but did't understand why or how it could have happened.
EDIT: I just now realized that the NEC has changed the 2008 code to require breakers for both phases of a multi-wire branch circuit to be disconnected simultaneously. Besically this means it now requires a 2-pole breaker for these circuits. It is about time this change was made. Just realize that your home probably does not have the 2-pole breaker , but 2 single phase breakers instead for these circuits.
drozwood90
Senior Member
Sandpiper, I don't have the 2008 NEC code book, but just had a house built. I don't have double pole breakers on any of my "split" wires.
My house is now a little over 1 year.
Thoughts?
--Dan
My house is now a little over 1 year.
Thoughts?
--Dan
From what I've been told, it's up to the local governing body as to what "version" of the NEC code book they want to enforce. They can also add to or subtract from the codes.
Sandpiper
Active Member
This is correct. I found a web site which lists current codes adopted for every state, but I believe it is a little of of date.
click here
hahah, UPB switches 1, me 0....
I have attempted, horribly, to install my switches. I tried the master slave combo, no go. I tried the master on a switch where no other switches control the lights, no go...I'm at a loss.
So, quick question..I install the dimmer switch, and nothing happens. Do I need to do anything else besides install the dimmer switch itself? If not, then I just suck at electrical work. I installed the black to black, brown to black, white to neutral, and had an extra wire I just capped off (brown / white)...nothing.
I have my electrican buddy coming over tomorrw to help...is there anything special with they way these are wired or are they wired like a regular switch? He hasn't heard of the UPB stuff before.
And, can anyone figure out what I was doign wrong?
I have attempted, horribly, to install my switches. I tried the master slave combo, no go. I tried the master on a switch where no other switches control the lights, no go...I'm at a loss.
So, quick question..I install the dimmer switch, and nothing happens. Do I need to do anything else besides install the dimmer switch itself? If not, then I just suck at electrical work. I installed the black to black, brown to black, white to neutral, and had an extra wire I just capped off (brown / white)...nothing.
I have my electrican buddy coming over tomorrw to help...is there anything special with they way these are wired or are they wired like a regular switch? He hasn't heard of the UPB stuff before.
And, can anyone figure out what I was doign wrong?
znelbok
Active Member
Electrical Safety is no joke. It is a hidden killer. There is no indication that a wire is live and hence you have to be very careful.
Even a small shock should mean a trip to the doc for a cardiogram. Even a small shock is enough to cause heart problems. They may not show up straight away or at all, but if they do then you are in trouble.
here is a best practice list (we actually have 10 steps called test before you touch at work, this is a simplified list of that)
Isolate - never work live. Isolating at the breaker is the easiest, but if in doubt, turn everything off.
Tag or lock - you dont want someone to turn it on on you - dont take the chance, it does not take long to add something to indicate that you have turned it off for a reason.
Check you meter or device. Connect it to a circuit that you know is live so you can prove to yourself that it is indeed working (what if the bulb was blown on a indicator that used light as a means if indicating that the circuit was live, or if the meter battery was flat).
Check the connection you are about to work on. Active to neutral, active to earth, neutral to earth.
Check your meter again on a known live circuit - just in case.
You should be good to go. But still be careful. If the neutrals have been crossed somewhere, there is a chance that the neutral wire voltage go high after you lift it. I am not going to explain that one here, but it is possible.
It is not worth saving a few minutes - It is not just you that is affected, it is your whole family. Take the time, so it safely and ensure that you get to grow old with your family and friends.
Even a small shock should mean a trip to the doc for a cardiogram. Even a small shock is enough to cause heart problems. They may not show up straight away or at all, but if they do then you are in trouble.
here is a best practice list (we actually have 10 steps called test before you touch at work, this is a simplified list of that)
Isolate - never work live. Isolating at the breaker is the easiest, but if in doubt, turn everything off.
Tag or lock - you dont want someone to turn it on on you - dont take the chance, it does not take long to add something to indicate that you have turned it off for a reason.
Check you meter or device. Connect it to a circuit that you know is live so you can prove to yourself that it is indeed working (what if the bulb was blown on a indicator that used light as a means if indicating that the circuit was live, or if the meter battery was flat).
Check the connection you are about to work on. Active to neutral, active to earth, neutral to earth.
Check your meter again on a known live circuit - just in case.
You should be good to go. But still be careful. If the neutrals have been crossed somewhere, there is a chance that the neutral wire voltage go high after you lift it. I am not going to explain that one here, but it is possible.
It is not worth saving a few minutes - It is not just you that is affected, it is your whole family. Take the time, so it safely and ensure that you get to grow old with your family and friends.
That won't always work either. Too many dumba**es are allowed to wire residential houses. If the breaker is off, then according to code, there should be no current on the neutral. None! But what happens is in the cases where you have multiple circuits coming into a j-box, (for example the box at the front door has the outdoor lights circuit and the entry light circuit all coming into a 3 gang box.), these lazy bast**ds doing the wiring just nut all the neutrals together since "it all goes back to the panel anyway".
So now you turn off the breaker for the outside lights and are working in a different box (the other end of the multi-way out in the garage) and somebody turns on the entry hall lights. That neutral is now energized.
How do I know this? Well, let's just say I know the hard way.
