Electrical Safety

[BraveSirRobbin]

I always like to back up my meter readings with a non-contact electrical tester, just to make sure everything in the box is off.

Something like THIS one.

 

[FrankMc]

Hi BSR

Here in Oz some sparkies refer to those as "Death Sticks" An electrician was electrocuted due to his "volt stick " being faulty....I carry one in my toolkit but only use it to verify that the wire is live (hot).....

Frank

 

[wuench]

Hi BSR

Here in Oz some sparkies refer to those as "Death Sticks" An electrician was electrocuted due to his "volt stick " being faulty....I carry one in my toolkit but only use it to verify that the wire is live (hot).....

Frank

I rely on the "death sticks" pretty heavily too. But I never assume the battery is good (some times I leave it on when I am done). So I always test it against a known live source first.

One other thing, in regards to breakers etc, is shared neutrals. I have run into one of these in my existing house. My personal opinion is these should be made illegal, but apparently they are allowed by the NEC around here. Basically even after shutting off the breaker for a box the neutral still has power running through it from another circuit and another electrical box. Not knowing where the wires tie in in other boxes, it is difficult to locate that second circuit to shut it off. It's a PITA.

So don't assume there is only one circuit in a box. Use a current tester or volt stick and check all the wires before working inside the box.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Hi BSR

Here in Oz some sparkies refer to those as "Death Sticks" An electrician was electrocuted due to his "volt stick " being faulty....I carry one in my toolkit but only use it to verify that the wire is live (hot).....

Frank

Well, any tool is only as good as the hand holding it! -_-

In electrical safety class they ALWAYS tell you to test the stick/meter with a known live circuit right before relying on it for a "critical" measurement. Also, note that I said "backup my meter readings" as it is not my primary indicator that a circuit is dead.

But, thanks for bringing this up as I was remiss in not mentioning this earlier.

 

[tmbrown97]

That won't always work either. Too many dumba**es are allowed to wire residential houses. If the breaker is off, then according to code, there should be no current on the neutral. None! But what happens is in the cases where you have multiple circuits coming into a j-box, (for example the box at the front door has the outdoor lights circuit and the entry light circuit all coming into a 3 gang box.), these lazy bast**ds doing the wiring just nut all the neutrals together since "it all goes back to the panel anyway".

So now you turn off the breaker for the outside lights and are working in a different box (the other end of the multi-way out in the garage) and somebody turns on the entry hall lights. That neutral is now energized.

Interesting reading. I'm no electrician, but I have done quite a bit in my life... I just happened to have the exact scenario described when I bought my house (at the front door; 3-gang, 2 circuits - indoor and outdoor)... but I was changing things around a lil and adding motion switches and UPB, so while in there, I shut off both circuits and separated the neutrals out. I guess I'm glad I did! Might have made my switch work a couple weeks ago a little more "energizing".

Also seen the other "Shared neutral" scenario; over the summer a friend's house had the neutral come loose behind the fridge; end result being her stove (110V because it was Gas), Fridge, and a few other appliances blow because of a nice 220V surge when the microwave kicked on.

All the more reason to avoid track houses... if you have the luxury, work with the electrician building your house to keep circuits separate, and always include a neutral. I swear the electrician that did this house was trying to show off with his wiring tricks; lots of odd but technically legal circuits; and missing neutrals in a few key places thanks to end-of-run switches.

 

[Herdfan]

All the more reason to avoid track houses... I swear the electrician that did this house was trying to show off with his wiring tricks; lots of odd but technically legal circuits;

You must live in my M-I-L's neighborhood. Over Thanksgiving I had to replace a GFCI in her powder room. I did solve a mystery as to why her post light outside only worked intermittently. I was fed from the GFCI in the powder room. Idiots.

 

[judge_l]

All the more reason to avoid track houses... I swear the electrician that did this house was trying to show off with his wiring tricks; lots of odd but technically legal circuits;

You must live in my M-I-L's neighborhood. Over Thanksgiving I had to replace a GFCI in her powder room. I did solve a mystery as to why her post light outside only worked intermittently. I was fed from the GFCI in the powder room. Idiots.

Half of my kitchen is fed through a GFCI near the counter top. The other half-including the refrigerator and lights- is fed from the GFCI located below the electrical panel in the basement. That took me a awhile to find the first time. Both bathrooms (including the lights) share the same GFCI, which is in the master bedroom closet. My only guess was at the time GFCI's were really expensive.

 

[Neurorad]

My garage outlets share a GFCI with the kids' bathroom outlets, upstairs on the 2nd floor, and with an outlet at the front door.

 

[drozwood90]

Sounds like my last house. Took me 2 weeks of turning circuits on / off and walking around with a lamp to figure out which plugs were on what circuit. Prior to doing that, it was almost as if someone took all the wires, balled them together, then ran them around the house.

--Dan

 

[Neurorad]

I'd like to thank everyone for contributing to this thread. I bought a 'death stick', and used it this last weekend to help change some light switches.

 

[signal15]

All the more reason to avoid track houses... I swear the electrician that did this house was trying to show off with his wiring tricks; lots of odd but technically legal circuits;

You must live in my M-I-L's neighborhood. Over Thanksgiving I had to replace a GFCI in her powder room. I did solve a mystery as to why her post light outside only worked intermittently. I was fed from the GFCI in the powder room. Idiots.

Half of my kitchen is fed through a GFCI near the counter top. The other half-including the refrigerator and lights- is fed from the GFCI located below the electrical panel in the basement. That took me a awhile to find the first time. Both bathrooms (including the lights) share the same GFCI, which is in the master bedroom closet. My only guess was at the time GFCI's were really expensive.

It's not legal where I'm at to run fridges off of a GFCI circuit.

I have 2 deathsticks. I test them on a known live circuit before testing on the one that I think I shut off. And I test with both of them (different brands).

 

[Neurorad]

It's not legal where I'm at to run fridges off of a GFCI circuit.

Question - what about a refrigerator in a basement, or a garage, where GFCIs are required?

I think a fridge is supposed to be on it's own circuit, in a garage, but what about GFCI?

One of my garage refrigerators is on a GFCI circuit (beer fridge, no 'food'), and the other is a dedicated circuit.

I can switch the GFCI fridge to the central vac circuit pretty easily - close proximity.

Any thoughts?

 

[signal15]

It doesn't meet code here. But, I would assume they can't do anything if the location wasn't originally designed for a fridge, such as a kitchen location. However, I would not put any fridges on a GFCI. My freezer in my garage was on one, and my green transformer box outside the house flaked out and sent power surges that tripped all of my GFCI's. I didn't notice until everything started to melt. I've since run new circuits for all of my freezers/fridges, 5 total, so that shouldn't happen again.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

When my house was built I wanted a dedicated 20 amp circuit in the garage, but to get it to pass inspection the builder installed a GFCI outlet. After inspection they said they would install the 20 amp standard outlet. :blink: So I'm guessing there is a requirement for outlets to be GFCI in a garage?!?!

I do have a GFCI outlet on a regular (shared) circuit in there that I use for hand tools and such.

 

[judge_l]

When my house was built I wanted a dedicated 20 amp circuit in the garage, but to get it to pass inspection the builder installed a GFCI outlet. After inspection they said they would install the 20 amp standard outlet. :blink: So I'm guessing there is a requirement for outlets to be GFCI in a garage?!?!

I do have a GFCI outlet on a regular (shared) circuit in there that I use for hand tools and such.

I think anywhere it is in close proximity to water they use a GFCI. My fridge has an icemaker, I'm guessing thats why it got put on that circuit, I wish it was on its own.