ELK-120 Setup Question

[tonti]

I need some pointers please. I am trying to set up alerts in the garage to allow me to hear if a sensor is triggered in the main building. 
 
Here is my setup:
 

• House: M1G, M1XIN, M1DBH, multiple KP in the main building
• Garage: M1DBH, M1XIN, KP in the Garage. 

All works fine but I need some alerts in the garage. I purchased the ELK-120 to play voice recordings. It is unclear by looking at the manual where the ELK-120 gets the information from on what announcement to play. I am confused on how to hook this up now. 
 
Do I hook this up to the M1DBH (if so how? It does not seem to go on the bus) or do I need an extra run from the M1G from the OUT 1 (or 2, 3)?
 
If it goes to one of the OUT - how does it know what recording to play?
 
 

 

[mikefamig]

I just took a look at the installation instructions and will try to help.
 
The elk-120 needs a 12v power source, a speaker and up to four outputs connected to it from the control. It does not use the data bus. It can store up to 4 individual 2 minute voice messages or you can use the four channels strung together to create longer messages. The recorded messages are stored in memory on the 120.
 
To activate the recorded messages you can create Elk rules that turn on outputs. these outputs are wired from outputs on the control to V1, V2, S3 and B4 on the 120 corresponding to the four recorded voice messages. For ex - turn on output connected to V1 to activate the first recorded message.
 
I do not know if you just pulse the output on or have to time it to 2 minutes to speak the entire message. Maybe someone else can help with this.
 
Mike.

 

[RAL]

Assuming you want the 120 to play 4 different voice recordings, then you need to connect 4 of the M1's outputs to the +V1, +V2, +S3 and +B4 inputs on the 120.  These would be Out7 - Out16, not Out1 - Out3.  Each output from the M1 will act as a trigger to make a voice announcement.  You will need to write rules to turn these outputs on for whatever event you want to announce.
 
You could locate the 120 in the main building, and just run a pair of wires from the 120 to a speaker in the garage. I would use 18 AWG wire or heavier for this.
 
Or, you could locate the 120 in the garage and run the 4 trigger wires from the M1 outputs to the garage.  22 AWG wire or even Cat5 would be fine.
 
Another option would be to add a M1XOVR in the garage to trigger the 120 locally. 
 
I'd probably opt for keeping the 120 in the main building and just driving a speaker from there.
 
You'll want to connect the +12V and NEG terminals on the 120 to a 12VDC power supply since the outputs from the M1 are low current sources. Your power supply will need to deliver up to 1.8 Amps depending on how loud you set the volume.

 

[mikefamig]

It appears from the instructions that you can activate a recorded message by sending a pulse signal via an output only if you have a 12v source permanently connected to the 120 at the 12v+ and NEG terminals. This can come from the Elk or an auxilliary supply but be careful not to overload the Elk.
 
Mike.

 

[Del91574]

It appears from the instructions that you can activate a recorded message by sending a pulse signal via an output only if you have a 12v source permanently connected to the 120 at the 12v+ and NEG terminals. This can come from the Elk or an auxilliary supply but be careful not to overload the Elk.
 
Mike.

You can cascade the power if you're only doing a single announcement and not have to drop constant power into the unit by installing a jumper between the trigger input and the positive power input. Still have to trigger the unit, but if outputs or relays are limited, it's an option.

 

[mikefamig]

You can cascade the power if you're only doing a single announcement and not have to drop constant power into the unit by installing a jumper between the trigger input and the positive power input. Still have to trigger the unit, but if outputs or relays are limited, it's an option.

DEL
 
Do you then have to time the output for the duration of the message?
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

I need some pointers please. I am trying to set up alerts in the garage to allow me to hear if a sensor is triggered in the main building. 
 
Here is my setup:
 

• House: M1G, M1XIN, M1DBH, multiple KP in the main building
• Garage: M1DBH, M1XIN, KP in the Garage. 

All works fine but I need some alerts in the garage. I purchased the ELK-120 to play voice recordings. It is unclear by looking at the manual where the ELK-120 gets the information from on what announcement to play. I am confused on how to hook this up now. 
 
Do I hook this up to the M1DBH (if so how? It does not seem to go on the bus) or do I need an extra run from the M1G from the OUT 1 (or 2, 3)?
 
If it goes to one of the OUT - how does it know what recording to play?

tonti
 
If all you want to do is to be able to hear in the garage when a zone is violated in the house then you can simply put a speaker in the garage and turn on voice chimes. Then when a zone is violated it will be voiced in all speakers including the garage speaker. You can even create a custom message that can be triggered by rules.
 
Mike.

 

[tonti]

Great!!!
 
This is starting to make sense now. Unfortunately I do not have a 18 AWG wire in my conduit and I do not have space to run one anymore. That's why did not have a speaker in the garage and hence the reason why I purchased the Elk-120. For all guys out there that plan their projects..... make sure you place a larger conduit in the ground than you think you ever need. I have a 1 1/2" conduit for data cables only and I can't pull anymore wires due to some curves. In hind side I should have run 1 2" or 3" or made some access points. But luckily....I have a spare Cat5 and a spare 2 wire that I can use. 
 
So, I probably hook up a 12V supply to play message completely. It says "For low current triggering of a channel, or to have messages play through to the end when activated by a momentary trigger, connect terminal +12V to a constant +12 Volt DC source." Now that all makes sense. Then I can use four of the eight strains of the cat5 to trigger four different voice messages by connecting to OUT 7, 8, 9 & 10. These are then wired to V1, V2, S3 and B4 on the 120. 
Now - there needs to be negative wire running back to M1 for the trigger wires going to the NEG on the OUT block - right? So one strain from the cat5 is used for NEG between the M1 and the Elk-120. Where would the negative from the power source go - to the same NEG on the Elk-120? 

 

[RAL]

So, I probably hook up a 12V supply to play message completely. It says "For low current triggering of a channel, or to have messages play through to the end when activated by a momentary trigger, connect terminal +12V to a constant +12 Volt DC source." Now that all makes sense. Then I can use four of the eight strains of the cat5 to trigger four different voice messages by connecting to OUT 7, 8, 9 & 10. These are then wired to V1, V2, S3 and B4 on the 120. 

Now - there needs to be negative wire running back to M1 for the trigger wires going to the NEG on the OUT block - right? So one strain from the cat5 is used for NEG between the M1 and the Elk-120. Where would the negative from the power source go - to the same NEG on the Elk-120? 

 
If you are going to locate the Elk 120 in the garage, then I would get a 12VDC 2A wall wart like this one to provide power for it. 
 
The OUTx wires from the M1 are referenced to the M1's NEG (ground), so you don't need an extra wire back to the M1 for that since you already have a NEG wire in the 4-wire data bus to the M1XIN that you have in the garage.
 
What you need to do is tie the -12V output from the wall wart will power the 120 to the NEG terminal on the 120 and also to the NEG terminal on the M1XIN or M1DBH so that they all have a common ground reference.

 

[Del91574]

If the 120 isn't connected other than a wet contact triggered locally, it won't need to be common to the M1 (though that is a "best" practice) but since the 120 isn't going to be supervised, nor the speaker, the common reference isn't truly needed.

 

[tonti]

Thanks everyone - the support here is awesome and much appreciated!
 
For everyone that follows I provide this for the record:
 

 

[Del91574]

Thanks everyone - the support here is awesome and much appreciated!
 
For everyone that follows I provide this for the record:

First, looking at your topology diagram on the top, you have a bad idea with how you're driving your data bus in the locations.
 
That is doable however there's a bunch of reasons why this would NOT be the preferred method, especially in the case of a detached or remote application.
 
The largest issue to consider for the driver,  is for anything BUT status messages, you would want to back up the power source for the audible.

The next issue is the amount of power carrying conductors being pulled to a remote location. It would be a better design choice to install a XOVR out in the remote building and have the triggering done out there with the voltage source out there. Any time you're doing underground pulls, no matter what the cable type, it's best to limit the number of voltage carrying conductors wherever possible or feizable.
 
Using the M1, with remote buildings, assuming only 2 locations, the wisest choice is to split the bus in 2 and have the remote building on it's own leg to help limit what would happen to the panel in the event of a short or ground on the system. Also makes troubleshooting and maintenance much easier.

 

[drvnbysound]

First, looking at your topology diagram on the top, you have a bad idea with how you're driving your data bus in the locations.
 
That is doable however there's a bunch of reasons why this would NOT be the preferred method, especially in the case of a detached or remote application.
 
The largest issue to consider for the driver,  is for anything BUT status messages, you would want to back up the power source for the audible.

The next issue is the amount of power carrying conductors being pulled to a remote location. It would be a better design choice to install a XOVR out in the remote building and have the triggering done out there with the voltage source out there. Any time you're doing underground pulls, no matter what the cable type, it's best to limit the number of voltage carrying conductors wherever possible or feizable.
 
Using the M1, with remote buildings, assuming only 2 locations, the wisest choice is to split the bus in 2 and have the remote building on it's own leg to help limit what would happen to the panel in the event of a short or ground on the system. Also makes troubleshooting and maintenance much easier.

 
DEL,
 
Please correct if I'm wrong, but I think you are suggesting this instead...

 

[tonti]

OK - thanks DELInstallation. 
 
I understand the picture below is the better setup - right? This would reduce the total length of the bus as well if I am not mistaken. I was wondering about that earlier too. I think if all is on leg it treat it like a single loop? 
 
Why does it say J1 and J2 are only temporary plug ins? Can I use them for the second leg or should I terminate both cable ends in the green databus connector as shown in the manual? 
 
Do I have jumper anything if I use the second leg?

 

[Del91574]

You would wire to the elevator terminal plugs on the panel and not the test connectors (they're not UL listed for permanent connection anyways....and you're honestly better off using your own cable to make jumpers anyways).
 
It's not going to reduce the length of the bus, but in the case of a cat X wired setup, you're already limited to 2K OAL on the bus considering the feed/return topology using cat X over the normal 4K' end to end. I don't know the topology, so OAL can't be determined either way.
 
You would remove the termination jumper from the M1 and each branch would be terminated.