Elk M1 and home automation integration

[jasonburgess88]

I have just purchased an ELK M1 Gold that i have not received yet. After doing a lot of research and reading on many forums, i have some questions on which HA technology to invest in ATM. I know there are quite a few threads on this already, but most of them are older... I have one INSTEON switch that i bought 2 years ago and shelved after it had to be replaced after 2 months of use. Also it seems that the usb module i used to program it is not compatible with the new dual band switches(which is frustrating). It seems UPB is the most reliable and i really want to go that route from what i have read. It seems like the UPB venders need a good controller like the ISY to make it really standout. It also seems to be lacking anything new and seems to be fading away. I have also read that the M1 and UPD have issues tracking status updates which seems problematic. I am wondering if you were a technical DIY starting out with HA today, what technology would you invest in? Also, do normal style light switches(non rockers) exist for UPB? the wife does not like the "look" of the rocker style...


Thanks in advance!
Jason

 

[tmbrown97]

UPB *doesn't* need a controller as Insteon does; the nature of it is that everything is contained in the switches and there's no such thing as a master controller.

UPB doesn't track status well directly with the Elk - but I have a workaround that's working well... I have Elve running on my Windows Home Server (HP MediaSmart) not doing much but some additional rules, but it's connected to another PIM and has the UPB module running - and it's capable of keeping accurate status. As an added bonus, when it checks status, the Elk sees the update as well. So, for a $99 Elve Intro license, I don't have the status issues other do.

As far as switch style, I've never heard of a non-decora style automation switch; that said, I've also never heard of anyone preferring a paddle over Decora. Automation switches are larger - there's a lot more to cram into a tiny space.

 

[jasonburgess88]

So it sounds like you would still stick with UPB? What brand of PIM would you get for the elk and the upstart/ELVE pc? Are the SAI switches still the most popular?

The wife really does not like the look of the "decora" style switch.. INSTEON has/had a togglelinc switch i believe that looks like a normal switch, but i have had bad luck thus far with INSTEON.

What thermostat does everyone use?

 

[tmbrown97]

Sorry for taking a while to respond...

I chose SA for the flexibility, price, and reviews of their products having the best feel to them. Since I've had UPB for several years, I use stacked PIM's for Elve, Upstart/RUC, and M1. I don't have the integrated unit - I have a PIM plugged into an XSP.

2 of my PIM's are SA and one is WebMountain - I can't see any real difference; that said, if you were to go with something like HAI's GenIII switches, I'd look at the HAI PIM, etc.

I will say that somewhere around my house I have a 4th PIM that's the USB SA one and it gave me TONS of problems - it was horribly unreliable and had to be reset all the time. The USB model is just the serial model with a USB to serial built in, and a lot of those had problems. I now have any serial devices plugged into an Aluratek USB to Serial Adapter - that's my goto model because I've used it in so many different scenarios and it's been flawless; and I've had nightmare experiences with so many other ones I've tried (I've literally bought at least 20 of the aluratek's - I use serial a lot for home automation, telco equipment, cisco routers/switches/firewalls, and a lot of other things).

For thermostats, figure out what your main automation platform is and see what's compatible. If you want it controlled by the Elk, then I believe Z-Wave ones work; otherwise for more reliable direct serial communication, HAI's OmniStat2 is my favorite of the options; I use an RCS Zone system which is no longer available that was the best possible setup for a zoned HVAC system - but their serial thermostats I think are still around; or the AprilAire. I really like the OmniStats though and used them in my previous home.

 

[DanielHeth]

Hey guys, figured I'd chime in and give another perspective...
I've been in automation for roughly a decade. Most of that time was spent building an X10 system with custom built control software. This was of course with my previous house.

Last year I purchased a new house and after months of research, I settled on the HomeSeer Pro. I'm a programmer and wanted the ability to modify till my hearts content and HomeSeer presented me with the best choice. Since I had spare computers just lying around, it was easy to repurpose one to act as the brain of my new home.
The reliability of X10 was really bad and I read recently that it's been discontinued... they're just selling out their remaining stock now. I don't have much experience with UPB or InsteOn, but Z-Wave I have been way more than satisfied with. I've HomeSeer is compatible with all of the technologies, and I have setup a few of my X10 modules up but this is limited due to powerline interference. (I haven't nor will I troubleshoot that due to my satisfaction with Z-Wave.)
I've been slowly adding Z-Wave products to my new HomeSeer network and very satisfied with the results. I've been adding their Multi-Sensors all over the house. I've been plugging them in which adds them to the Mesh network and furthering the connection signals.

My research into security is also leading me to saving up for an Elk M1 Gold as the security features I'm wanting. My research says the Elk can be integrated with HomeSeer allowing me to trigger events and control devices based on Elk events like doors opening, etc.

The inteligence is in HomeSeer, Security will be with Elk, and control is performed by X10 and Z-Wave. Thanks to HomeSeer, if I see something I like with the others (UPB or InsteOn), i can easily add them so i don't have to settle on just one technology.

 

[jasonburgess88]

My only experience thus far with home automation has been with Insteon and it was poor. I have read a lot of forums and everyone that has used UPB loves it. I know they don't have the biggest selection of devices, but for lighting and plugs, they seem solid.

I have not decided on a software yet. Seems like most people either use CQC or Homeseer, with ELVE cutting in. I have an ESXi vm server, so ill just use a VM for it. Seems like CQC has better multimedia interfaces while homeseer is a little more flexible.

As for Gen1 vs Gen2/3 is there a big difference between them? I thought i had read that SA didnt see the need to move to Gen2 for some reason.

 

[dgage]

And I'll put in my "small" 2 cents in that I have started looking into HA and security in the last 4 months or so. I work in technology so I was a little taken aback in how slow HA technology moves. At first, I thought I would get into the security first to improve our current alarm. However, since we're remodeling our kitchen I am going to start with lighting and some distributed music. I looked at UPB and while there are many that are happy with it, even/especially with large 50-100 device installations, I was disappointed in the lack of investment in UPB. I looked at Zwave but read about too many issues with large lighting implementations. Insteon isnt discussed here much and that may be due to issues early in Insteons life as well as SmartHome being the only distributor. Seems like a good balance might be to mix technologies with one on lighting and another for locks, thermostats, etc. Most choose between UPB, Zwave, and Zigbee.

For me, I chose Lutron's RadioRa2 and just received my initial order last week and plan to have it installed by the electrician next week. I chose it mainly due to the elegance and selection of devices and track record of the system (reliability). Note that it is more expensive than the other systems being discussed, is not DIY friendly (have to take online BLAST training to get software), and it doesn't have as many HA software interfaces except for CQC (recent beta). HAI interfaces via serial and Elk has an addon module.

For whole home audio, I was researching options with CQC (due to RadioRa 2) but in the short term will be using Sonos as I found some ZP80s in my dads basement that he apparently bought when a stereo store went out of business. I'm pretty sure he didn't even know what they were.

The Elk system is powerful and could meet your needs for interfacing with your home in terms of lighting, security, audio, etc. However, if you want more power, you may consider an HA controller or software package such as UD ISY99 controller, HomeSeer controller/sw, CQC sw, or Elve sw. Besides the ISY99 controller, the software packages have trials so you can try them out. And while there are differences between the software packages, there is enough power for any of them to handle 90-100% of what a typical home owner wants.

David

 

[Dean Roddey]

CQC of course also now has strong Sonos integration, so you can still have good control over the Sonos stuff as well. You can choose to let CQC control it and do your media selection from CQC, or you can use the Sonos interface and just have CQC just provide control and feedback.