Elk M1 Install Questions

[snakevargas]

I'm starting my first Elk M1 install and have a few questions. I have researched around the forum a bit, and it's been quite helpful. This is an install into an existing home that is not pre-wired. As such I'll be using a combination of wired sensors (where wiring is easy to install) and wireless sensors (where wire is difficult to install). My home is two stories, about 2500 square feet.
 
1) I see that putting an SP12F behind a keypad is a common choice. Is one of those centrally located loud enough for the entire living space? If not an SP12F how about a single centrally located Echo 20 watt speaker?
 
2) When wiring keypads, I have some options. I have on hand 22/4 cable and cheap Cat 5 cable. I could run two 22/4 runs to supply a keypad + SP12F with two conductors left over. What about instead running a single Cat 5 and using a pair for the speaker. Is one Cat 5 pair good enouch to run a SP12F speaker?
 
3) In addition to the house, I'm securing a 3 bay garage (one bay is a workshop). I will be putting contacts on doors and windows. The garage also has two burglar-inviting windows (it's where I'd break in if I was a crook). Is a glass break suitable for a garage or will tools be setting it off all the time? What about motion detectors in garages? Do those work acceptably well?
 
4) Are combo PIR / microwave detectors recommended? In particular I was looking at this smarthome product: 76405A, 40 x 40 PIR/Microwave (can't link it, I'm too new here).
 
5) Does anyone have any tips for installing door plungers in existing construction? I'd like to go wired. My house does not have a basement, just a rather tight and unpleasant crawlspace. My biggest concern is getting the wire through the bottom plate into the crawlspace. I can't think of a good way to do this without cutting out a chunk of drywall next to the door which I don't really want to do. For this reason I might go with ion GE-compatible wireless detectors in the doors.
 
That's all I can think of for now, but I'm sure I'll have more. Thanks.
 
 

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Plunger sensors have a bad rap as some users experienced 'sticking' (search for more info as I'm going from memory).
 
I would use glass break and motion technology in the garage.  If you are really concerned about 'certain' windows, maybe put a glass break (different type than 'room' detection) on the window itself as well as a general one.
 
Just watch for sun entry into the windows when selecting a location for the motion sensor.
 
I really don't think tools would set off the glass breaks, but would it matter as you are only concerned about setting them off during an 'arm' condition?  Would you ever be using that garage when the system is armed?  If so, maybe disable them in 'stay' mode perhaps if that becomes a problem.
 
I'll let others answer your remaining questions as they will have 'first hand' experience.
 
Welcome to CocoonTech!

 

[snakevargas]

Thanks for the welcome!
 
Ideally, I'd leave the glass breakage and magnetic/plunger sensors armed on the garage windows all the time. These windows are never opened. Acoustic glass break is a technology I'm not at all familiar with. The other type (that's affixed to the window directly) is a vibration sensor?
 
What should I be watching out for with motion sensor placement regarding light from the windows? The third single-car bay (which is where I'd like the sensor at, as that's where tools and such are stored) is a rectangle, with the two windows along the "long" side of the rectangle. There's a garage door on one of the short side of the rectangle and a 3'6" door on the other short side. I was thinking of putting the motion detector on the short side with the 3'6" door, aimed lengthwise down the long axis of the garage bay.
 

Plunger sensors have a bad rap as some users experienced 'sticking' (search for more info as I'm going from memory).
 
I would use glass break and motion technology in the garage.  If you are really concerned about 'certain' windows, maybe put a glass break (different type than 'room' detection) on the window itself as well as a general one.
 
Just watch for sun entry into the windows when selecting a location for the motion sensor.
 
I really don't think tools would set off the glass breaks, but would it matter as you are only concerned about setting them off during an 'arm' condition?  Would you ever be using that garage when the system is armed?  If so, maybe disable them in 'stay' mode perhaps if that becomes a problem.
 
I'll let others answer your remaining questions as they will have 'first hand' experience.
 
Welcome to CocoonTech!

 

[Del91574]

1. Depends on the size of the house, however 1 SPF12 is too high an impedance for the panel, you would ideally have 4 installed in parallel (IMHO) for a total load of 8 ohms.
 
2. IMHO, 2 or even 4 pair on a category cable are really stretching it for supporting a speaker. Given the choice of an M1, why not just purchase some 18 AWG cable, you're going to need it for the transformer anyways.
 
3. Either is acceptable, however if an opener or the OHD is exceptionally loud, the GBD may false. Conversely some motions can false in the enviroment of a unconditioned garage space. Consider the enviroment and related devices to make an informed decision.
 
4. Dualtecs are always going to be recommended over a straight PIR no matter what the application.
 
5. Installing contacts without removing trim or sheetrock is pretty straightforward if you have a bellhanger bit and a little skill. It's all about drilling angles and what gets drilled first (usually I do a 1/4 or 3/8" at an angle down and then use the counterbore (either 3/8 or 3/4") to "clean up" and hide the wire path down. It takes marginal skill, but easy enough to do. In the case of 3/4" contacts, it's a no-brainer and eliminates a lot of the skill needed for 3/8" contacts to be installed cleanly.

 

[snakevargas]

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. You drill the angle, then you come back and drill the bigger hole. I was originally thinking of doing it in the opposite order (which would me much more difficult!)

 

[tmbrown97]

The idea with the motions is to try to avoid having them looking at windows.  There are a variety of reasons... but a lot of that can be mitigated by good quality dual-tech motions.  Not all dual-techs are created equal - for instance, when your garage gets hot to nearly body-temp, suddenly the IR becomes useless - some detectors just won't detect, while others realize this is happening and will work off the microwave only.
 
For the glassbreaks, I don't think I'd put acoustic sensors in the garage and expect them to be armed 24/7 - they're generally not recommended for 24/7 use in any zone.  Maybe someone with more experience can chime in, but I think I'd opt for a stick-on style for garage use.  Drop a crescent wrench on concrete and I'm pretty sure that a normal glass-break is going to go off; not to mention what might happen from the use of an impact wrench, a hammer on anything, etc.
 
If you're only doing a central speaker, use the larger speaker that's in most of the kits - the sound quality still isn't great but it'll be a lot louder than a single SP12.  That said, I'm a huge fan of multiple keypads around the front door, garage door, and master bedroom - so with an SP12 in each that starts to get pretty good distribution of sound, and I really like the fact that the sound originates from the alarm interfaces - it feels more natural.
 
As for wired vs. Wireless - you're already going to have the wireless receiver in place from the sounds of things - think about each run and if it's worth saving $25 to hard-wire each contact...  To me, it's not - but where I live, houses are on slabs and there's no way to get wires up through the second story.  That said, a 2-minute install vs. an hour+ install - speaks for itself.  I'll also add on - I love the Ion sensors for windows - but for doors, I hate their plungers... they're just not reliable enough.  In a way I'm lucky though - the ones that act up on me are my interior doors - my 2 exterior doors have been pretty solid.

 

[snakevargas]

What sort of issues did you have with the plungers? Is it a mechanical problem (plunger sticking? or not depressing far enough?) or a problem with the electronics?
 
Is there anything that prevents a person from using the ion magnetic sensors for doors? I suppose a person might have to miter the magnet in.

 

[Del91574]

Any switch that is mechanically actuated has the physical failure aspect vs. a magnetically actuated, hermetically sealed switch. Typically I see the big 3 failures, plungers gumming up or being painted, causing sticking, enviromental, such as moisture causing the spring to rust solid, or physical, where the opening moves around due to temperature/humidity causing phantom alarms.
 
Rollers and plungers should be a last choice switch, either due to wire routing or door style.
 
The difference between hardwired/wireless typically is about $30-35/point....with the variable being labor.You can spend a lot less money and maintenance over time for hardwired units. I've used traditional magnets for hardwired contacts on the Ion units before rather than the footballs they come with, which are good for vinyl installations only.

 

[homejones]

 As for wired vs. Wireless - you're already going to have the wireless receiver in place from the sounds of things - think about each run and if it's worth saving $25 to hard-wire each contact...  To me, it's not - but where I live, houses are on slabs and there's no way to get wires up through the second story.  That said, a 2-minute install vs. an hour+ install - speaks for itself.

 
YES YES YES to this post. I made a bad decision to hardwire all of my non-window sensors (I had to go wireless for the windows). So I am stuck making homeruns of all my motions and glassbreaks. I have done about 8 of these sensors now. Every time I have to do a hardwire sensor, it requires drilling up into the corners of rooms with my drill bits, minimum two trips to the attic to run the wiring, 15-20 minutes of stripping, organizing, and installing the wiring at the panel, etc. I HATE GOING INTO MY ATTIC AND RUNNING 22/4 WIRE!

 

[tmbrown97]

I guess I should clarify - I ran wire for my keypads and speakers and also for most of the motions - especially the ones I'd want to use for a little bit of automation as well.  Wireless motions really aren't well suited for automation due to the lockout feature.
 
The problems with the Ion plungers are probably some combination of not deep enough or not properly extending... that said I should mention that I have the 1st generation ones... they had thin bezels that would break when you tried to remove them to change a battery...  I have a couple samples of the new design and they instead screw to the frame and include a spacer if needed to get the plunger to depress better.

 

[snakevargas]

I've made a diagram of the garage bay that I want to protect. Note: Ignore the dimensions, it's not to scale.
 

 
The proposed location of the motion detector I've marked with "MD". I'm just looking for a sanity check to see if this should work, or if there's obvious problems before I start running wires. I do not use the garage door in this bay and do not ever plan to. At least one window will probably be in the field of view of the motion detector, although the detector doesn't look directly at the window. The windows do have venetian blinds on them.

 

[jpmargis]

I'd go with one of the corners just to the right for a little better coverage

 

[snakevargas]

Let's say I stick it in the bottom right corner. Would I expect that it could "see" through the uninsulated 2x6 wall and be set off when the water heater or furnace cycles?

 

[jpmargis]

Not unless the water heater or furnace is burning rocket fuel!

 

[snakevargas]

Now it's time to wire up the RJ31X for the phone connection. Do folks usually put the RJ31X in the panel, or over by the telco box?