Elk M1G with HAI C3 - test dials

[Linwood]

I'm to the part where I make the M1G talk to people. The phone test worked fine with landline and e-mail. Hooked up the C3 and it works fine with a handset, but this whole idea that it effectively replaces the landline connection has me thrown for a loop in terms of testing.

It seems that for good practice it should do a communication test periodically with both the landline and the C3. How does one do that with a central station?

I can have the C3 call ME periodically, but that's annoying.

The Global RC's let me set how often it tests the communcator tests. But I assume that's a test only of a successful communication, which means if both landline and cell are working, whichever is primary, and it never tests the backup.

IF I set up two "always report" numbers to a central station, not sure if a central station would notice the second (I think they ignore seeming duplicates?), or tell me of its absence, but even assuming they would, how would I do it? If I put

#1: number
#2: *number# <<< forcing cellular

And if the landline was out or not working right through/to the C3, the first will just go via cellular as well as the second, so I never get a real test of the landline. The best I can see is by passing the C3 to all home phones also, and depending that if the landline is out someone will notice the unusual dial tone (assuming someone is home).

Am I missing something? I just don't see how to get an affirmative test automatically that both landline and cell are working? (ok call me paranoid, but the rationale of a backup is defeated if you have no idea if the backup works).

By the way... is a central station (who I have not set up with yet) going to offer a service of telling me if after X days there is no test?

 

[apostolakisl]

I'm to the part where I make the M1G talk to people.  The phone test worked fine with landline and e-mail.  Hooked up the C3 and it works fine with a handset, but this whole idea that it effectively replaces the landline connection has me thrown for a loop in terms of testing.

It seems that for good practice it should do a communication test periodically with both the landline and the C3.   How does one do that with a central station?

I can have the C3 call ME periodically, but that's annoying.

The Global RC's let me set how often it tests the communcator tests.  But I assume that's a test only of a successful communication, which means if both landline and cell are working, whichever is primary, and it never tests the backup.

IF I set up two "always report" numbers to a central station, not sure if a central station would notice the second (I think they ignore seeming duplicates?), or tell me of its absence, but even assuming they would, how would I do it?    If I put

#1: number
#2: *number#     <<< forcing cellular

And if the landline was out or not working right through/to the C3, the first will just go via cellular as well as the second, so I never get a real test of the landline.  The best I can see is by passing the C3 to all home phones also, and depending that if the landline is out someone will notice the unusual dial tone (assuming someone is home).

Am I missing something?  I just don't see how to get an affirmative test automatically that both landline and cell are working?  (ok call me paranoid, but the rationale of a backup is defeated if you have no idea if the backup works).

By the way... is a central station (who I have not set up with yet) going to offer a service of telling me if after X days there is no test?

If you dial "*" then the number, the C3 will place the call using cellular even if the landline is working. So, assuming Elk can dial a "*" then the number, you can test the cellular without manually disconnecting a working landline. I can confirm that Elk will let you put a "*" in the phone number spot, whether it dials it or not I don't know. But, obviously, you would need to do two tests in a row to test both. So, your panel would need to be able to run two tests to two different numbers and your central station would need to be willing to receive two tests and report to you if it only gets one. Using Elk, it is certainly possible to set two reporting phone numbers. I believe when it runs a test, it calls all numbers, but I can't say for sure. You definitely could use rules to have it call you both ways on some schedule and give you a voice message. If the "*" thing doesn't work on Elk, you can always run the phone line through one of Elk's relays and have it disconnect the landline for the cellular test. Using this method, you could have it alternate, testing. So, if you did weekly tests, every other week would be landline. Effectively now you are testing each every 2 weeks. This only requires central station to notify you if it doesn't get its weekly test. No need to complicate matters where they have to notify you if they don't get two calls in a row.

 

[Linwood]

The problem is with a * in the number when the landline is NOT working, it will not dial at all (it sends it to the cellular network).

Running the phone line through a relay for the test is interesting, but I have not seen how I can cause that to do a central station test, just a voice test. Is there a way to initiate the central station testing from a rule?

In thinking about this the best thing would be if I could, from a rule, enable or disable a specific phone number. Then I could set up the cental station both ways, let the normal test run, and every other time disable it to let a cellular call run. Either one failing would get reported (admittedly at half the normal frequency whatever that is). But I see no way to control the security telephone setup from rules. Is there?

 

[apostolakisl]

The problem is with a * in the number when the landline is NOT working, it will not dial at all (it sends it to the cellular network).

Running the phone line through a relay for the test is interesting, but I have not seen how I can cause that to do a central station test, just a voice test.  Is there a way to initiate the central station testing from a rule?

In thinking about this the best thing would be if I could, from a rule, enable or disable a specific phone number.  Then I could set up the cental station both ways, let the normal test run, and every other time disable it to let a cellular call run.  Either one failing would get reported (admittedly at half the normal frequency whatever that is).  But I see no way to control the security telephone setup from rules.  Is there?

Using the * I meant that you would setup two entire central station calls. If you right click on the little phone on Elkrp you can add multiple outbound phone numbers.But I think your best bet would be to use the relay. This is as near to real world as you get. It forces the cai unit to switch over automatically testing that feature.If you have your central station test setup for, lets say, every Monday at 3:12am, then write a rule that every other Monday it turns the relay on (disconnecting the land line) at 3:11am and then shuts the relay off at 3:14am.

 

[Linwood]

Let me experiment with that, it sounds intriging. Unfortunately the HAI C3 I received does not work correctly, it always uses the cellular network unless I physically turn it off, then it uses the PSTN. When I called HAI they said "oh, some units are like that, depends on where you are in the country" and I think are sending me another one (waiting on call back).

But that sounds like a very nice alternative, thank you.

 

[apostolakisl]

Let me just add this. I have an Elk and HAI C3. I do not have a landline at all. It runs strictly off of gsm and it has been flawless. It has been up and running for maybe a bit over a year now and has never failed.

 

[Linwood]

Just to update, I am about ready to through this darn thing away.

It works flawlessly in GSM mode, but it will NOT pass through PSTN dial tone. I called HAI who said "yes, some older units were like that". "Older?" says I? I just bought it. The serial number shows made in 2010. HAI says return it to the retailer, who says they will but then says they only have other 2010 units (made the same week) to send me. And no one is available to work with HAI to replace it. That was two days ago, and still have no resolution.

I looked at the testing and using a relay and decided to give up. If I do this, I will just periodically do a manual test call from the GSM side to a real phone. It is not that it is hard, it is just klunky and I probably have more risk screwing up the rules so it might fail in a real situation.

But I am seriously considering just returnign the C3 and getting an Uplink 2500.

Though I assume the same problem exists there -- tests to the central station are only going to test via the primary link (if it works), right? There's no provision for central station testing to primary and backup, even writing a rule?

 

[apostolakisl]

I think I would save yourself the headache and just don't bother with the POTS line at all. I frankly don't even know if mine works with a POTS line because I don't have one at all. I have mine connected to GSM only and it always works. Provided you have good signal strength, the odds of your cellular going down are rediculously small. And if it did, it probably would be the result of a massive disaster (tornado, hurricane, flood) and in that case the POTS line would probably also be down and furthermore the police probably wouldn't have time to come to your house anyway. The radio on the c3 is very powerful.

 

[Linwood]

Maybe. Or Cellular with IP as a backup. My IP network goes over DSL so it's more or less equivlient to dial backup. Thanks.