ELK-M1XIN 16 zone expander on a M1DBH Data Bus Hub

1) if a M1DBH data bus hub exists to which all the keypads are run, does the M1XIN 16 zone expander connect to
a) the control using 4 wire or
b) to the M1DBH with ethernet plug wired up?
 
2) if a ELK-M1XRFTW Two-Way Wireless Transceiver is on the system connected from Zone 17 onwards, can i address the M1XIN expander to Address 4 = Zones 49 - 64 or does it have to be above the 160 wireless zones of the M1XRFTW.
i won't be using more wireless zones than 17-48 for sure.  49-64 seemed safe on paper for wired expansion.  Only 5 zones are defined in wireless so far.
 
 
 
urbanscribe said:
1) if a M1DBH data bus hub exists to which all the keypads are run, does the M1XIN 16 zone expander connect to
a) the control using 4 wire or
B) to the M1DBH with ethernet plug wired up?
 
2) if a ELK-M1XRFTW Two-Way Wireless Transceiver is on the system connected from Zone 17 onwards, can i address the M1XIN expander to Address 4 = Zones 49 - 64 or does it have to be above the 160 wireless zones of the M1XRFTW.
i won't be using more wireless zones than 17-48 for sure.  49-64 seemed safe on paper for wired expansion.  Only 5 zones are defined in wireless so far.
 
Any data bus device, such as keypads, wired zone expanders or wireless expanders can be connected to the M1DBH.  Each of them should be wired up with a Catx cable and RJ45 connector.
 
The M1 can drive two home runs, each with a terminating resistor at the far end.  The M1DBH counts as one home run connection.  If you wanted to, you could connect the M1XIN directly to the M1 as a second home run, and install the terminator jumper on JP1.  Then, you would need to connect the M1XRFTW up to the M1DBH, since you can't have a third home run connection to the data bus.  I would just connect all of the data bus devices to the M1DBH and keep things simple.
 
For the zone assignments, the M1XRFTW operates in one or more blocks of 16 zones. Not all of them need to be assigned. So you could install the M1XIN with an address of 4, which would allow for up to 32 wireless zones (17-48).
 
You may think you'll never have more than 32 wireless zones, but if one day you do, you'll have to move the M1XIN's address and reassign all those zones. That can be a pain depending on how many zones you have to do.
 
A better approach is to assign your hardwired zone expanders at the upper end of the address space and work down, leaving a gap of unused zones in the middle.  So, assign the first M1XIN as data bus address 12 (zones 177 to 192).  That way, you leave yourself with the most flexibility to add wired or wireless zones in the future, without having to reassign anything.
 
1) You could do either, assuming the XIN would be the second branch of the data bus. My preference would be to the DBH, as I would always easily access that is where all my Data Bus devices are terminated.
 
2) The [first] XRFTW must be installed and enrolled at data bus address #2. You can address the XIN at Address 4 as you mentioned, you just have to ensure that your wireless zones never overlap, which doesn't seem like it would be an issue. To avoid the possibility completely, you could just address the XIN at #11. This information is spelled out on pages 5-6 in the XRFTW manual.
 
I'd probably go opposite of RAL for logical purposes alone. I like hardwired grouped together and then leave the RF at the top of the panel. M1 has 192 zones after the panel. Doubtful you'll come close to even half that, even on a large RF install.
 
DELInstallations said:
I'd probably go opposite of RAL for logical purposes alone. I like hardwired grouped together and then leave the RF at the top of the panel. M1 has 192 zones after the panel. Doubtful you'll come close to even half that, even on a large RF install.
 
I like the HW grouped together too, but the first XRFTW requires that it's at Address 2, using 17-33 at a minimum.
 
So if you have more than 16 HW zones, they are going to have to be split up...  unless you choose not to use any of the on-board zones.
 
drvnbysound said:
I like the HW grouped together too, but the first XRFTW requires that it's at Address 2, using 17-33 at a minimum.
 
So if you have more than 16 HW zones, they are going to have to be split up...  unless you choose not to use any of the on-board zones.
 
I also agree that it would be nice to have all the hardwired zones grouped together.
 
But if you use any of the keypad zone inputs, they are always going to be up at 192 and above.  So you'll have a split no matter where you put the wireless zones.  For me, it is just as easy to remember that zones 1 to 16 are at the low end, and all the other hardwired zones at at the high end.
 
urbanscribe said:
1) if a M1DBH data bus hub exists to which all the keypads are run, does the M1XIN 16 zone expander connect to
a) the control using 4 wire or
B) to the M1DBH with ethernet plug wired up?
 
To answer this question you should think ahead to any possible future additions to the system. The M1 panel supports two home run data bus cables. One is usually sufficient for a residential installation and your M1XIN can simply be connected to the existing DBH but there are some circumstances where a second cable from the M1 is beneficial. In my home I have a 250' home run to my detached garage. I connected this directly to the M1 in order to keep this run as short as possible. The length of the run will affect response times for data and cause a voltage drop on the power lines so shorter is better. I believe that the maximum length of either one of these cables is ~4000' and that is measuring the wire length out to the device and the return run back to the DBH for each device. If I open a door in my garage and have chime set to voice I can hear the lag time between when the door opens and the speaker voices the zone violation. It is a fraction of a second but is noticeable.
 
if your system merits a second data bus connected directly to the M1 then ideally you should try to balance the peripherals evenly on the two buses. The shorter the run from the M1 to any peripheral the faster the data response time and the less voltage drop on the power supply lines.
 
Now while that is all true it is not at all necessary to start moving devices around on the system to balance it. What is already installed is just fine and if it aint broke don't fix it. I'm just offering some food for thought.
 
Mike.
 
As for the location and grouping of zones
 
I put my 6 M1 house zones in group one, 7 wireless group 2, 8 garage zones in group 11 and the keypad zones in group 13. Don't ask me why but it just seemed to make sense to move the second wired M1XIN up top near the keypad zones. It leaves me room for nine additional zones in group 1 and 8 additional in the garage without needing another group and more room for wireless devices than any house should ever need. The empty group 12 between M1XIN and keypads was just for elbow room in case I needed it.
 
Mike.
 
For the bus and branches, you'd need to determine what it the topology of the install and if there's other items involved. If you're doing an outbuilding, it should be a separate branch from a logical standpoint alone....you don't want that branch affecting the main house. It's not a factor of data speeds or voltage drop, there's plenty of ways to account and adjust for that. It's more of an "all or none" proposition if a branch goes down.
 
For KP zones, you're normally not going to have many of them, if you use them at all.
 
For RF zones, it's just like installing HW, you add the groups of 16 and they don't have to be contiguous. You just burn the block of 16 zones for each group.
 
I've not been a fan of Elk's 2 way. Too limited and too many issues that I've seen. Great on paper, but in execution, there's really only a handful of applications where I can see 3 specific transmitters being of value; keyfobs, panics, and the tandem ring of the smoke detectors. From dealing with GE and Honeywell RF for years (decades now) I don't see the battery life being that significant. I'm seeing about 5-8 years on average per CR123. Just too limited in scope and application to be rolled out for my use.
 
re: two way.  agreed.  would not get it again - don't see any meaning full difference or advantage other than all-ring FDs.  
 
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