ELK-M1XRF2G or NX-548e for M1?

[miamicanes]

If having 48 wireless zones isn't a serious drawback, is there any particular reason to buy an ELK-M1XRF2G instead of a NX-548e and harness? From what I can tell, the M1XRF2G costs about 3 times as much, and is more finicky about the sensors it works with. Is that a pretty accurate assessment, or am I overlooking something important/significant?

 

[Spanky]

There is new M1XRF2G decoder software coming out that supports additional GE transmitters. M1 software upgrades that support the NX548e receiver will be limited in the future so that the memory space required for the NX receiver can be used for other expanded features.

 

[miamicanes]

There is new M1XRF2G decoder software coming out that supports additional GE transmitters. M1 software upgrades that support the NX548e receiver will be limited in the future so that the memory space required for the NX receiver can be used for other expanded features.

Sigh. Can I at least feel confident that the DW-319 with a Window Bug attached to one of its spare zones will work with a NX548e and M1Gold today, and keep working after future firmware updates?

 

[Steve]

I don't see any reason why that would not work. The Elk receiver is tuned more for Crystal transmitters than SAW, but the SAW transmitters will typically work anyway. The DW-319 says it is crystal based so I would think it would work fine. A benefit of the Elk RF is that is goes on the bus so you can locate it elsewhere easily which may help for reception. Or, in a large enough house/property, you can use 2 if needed.

 

[miamicanes]

I don't see any reason why that would not work. The Elk receiver is tuned more for Crystal transmitters than SAW, but the SAW transmitters will typically work anyway. The DW-319 says it is crystal based so I would think it would work fine. A benefit of the Elk RF is that is goes on the bus so you can locate it elsewhere easily which may help for reception. Or, in a large enough house/property, you can use 2 if needed.

Maybe, but will it still work 6-18 months from now? Or is Elk going to turn the 548e into a useless doorstop as far as the M1G is concerned?

(update)

Well, forget about 6 months from now... it looks like they abandoned anyone with a 548e last year.

Thank god I found out now. The official marketing literature and documentation for the M1G/EZ8 makes it look like the 548e is a perfectly good option. Nowhere does it come out and unambiguously warn you that buying a 548e will condemn you to second-class citizenship in the M1 universe, and leave you stranded with obsolete firmware forever.

Elk really needs to have someone spend an afternoon with Adobe Acrobat and whatever program they use to maintain their web site purging every phrase that implies that the 408e/416e/448e/548e is a reasonable alternative to the M1XRF2G, and replace it with a bold, red warning that it's officially deprecated and absolutely should not be considered for new installations under any circumstances unless you want to be stuck with obsolete firmware.

Had I gone out and ordered everything this afternoon, then found out next week that I was condemned to old firmware forever unless I junked the 548e and burned another $160+ on a M1XRF2G, I would have been livid.

 

[miamicanes]

Well, despite my afternoon+evening of disillusionment, I decided it's still the best system, and went ahead & ordered a M1G last night before going to bed -- skipping wireless entirely for now.

I decided that it's not worth spending $160+ for a M1XRF2G just for the sake of one sliding glass door's aesthetics, but it's also not worth crippling my new M1G into obsolescence from day one by saddling it with a 548e.

I would like to thank Spanky for saving me from an expensive mistake by being up front and honest!

 

[Steve]

Had I gone out and ordered everything this afternoon, then found out next week that I was condemned to old firmware forever unless I junked the 548e and burned another $160+ on a M1XRF2G, I would have been livid.

You won't ever have that issue with most reputable shops like Automated Outlet. They will always let you exchange something purchased there for something else. Of course if you buy your stuff off the back of a truck or ebay you may be stuck.

 

[Photon]

I'm just guessing that ELK doesn't stay in business because of sales to us do-it-yourselfers. They continue to offer both options, and it possibly allows security system professionals to offer the CADDX option where appropriate in order to provide a quality service at a better price. In a world where cost is everything, it could make the difference in getting the job or not.

If one takes the time to read up on the options before buying, it is clear from the manual there will be limitations if one chooses the old device. Is that unusual? Every time I buy a PC I remember it will be obsolete before I get it out of the store. Ever buy a new car? Did the highly qualified salesman cozy up and admit that if you just wait until next year you will have all these great new features?

I think we have to review the manuals as part of an informed buying decision. In the case of the M1XRF, our first clue is right on the front cover under the phrase, "IMPORTANT NOTE:"

 

[ultrajones]

Has anyone from Elk confirmed they are dropping support for the NX548E in future firmware releases?

I just visited their web site and they still state it is supported:

The ELK-M1GOLD and ELK-M1EZ8 support the following wireless receiver manufactured by GE.
NX548E 48 Wireless Zones

I originally looked at the ELK-M1XRF2G, but it doesn't support the GE SAW transmitters (which I use). I won't be a happy camper if I am am stuck with obsolete hardware (considering they clearly state it is supported.).

Regards,
Ultrajones

 

[brotsten]

The dealer site lists 12/12/07 as the latest dates for both sets of firmware.

Brian

 

[rfdesq]

Has anyone from Elk confirmed they are dropping support for the NX548E in future firmware releases?

ELK's chief engineer, a few posts earlier, wrote that support would be limited in the future. Looking into my crystal ball with ELK marketing in the back of my mind, I think "limited" support at some point will become no support. The ELK receiver is rock solid, etc., etc., so why not sell your own rather than promote someone else's. I think the handwriting is on the wall, just my opinion.

 

[Spanky]

The NX receiver occupies over 10K bytes of extremely valuable program code space and is limited to one receiver on the M1 and 48 zones maximum. The M1XRF2G Receiver can have up to 13 receivers on the M1 system for redundancy and 144 zones maximum.

For the M1XRF2G Receiver, ELK has new GE receiver decoder software about to release and additional receiver protocols coming out in the future. There has not been any discussion of totally dropping NX Receiver support. In the forseeable future it will still be available in a software version, but enhancements to the M1 will be in the software version that supports the M1XRF2G due to program code space availability.

I suggest that if you are buying a new receiver for the M1, buy the M1XRF2G receiver so that future M1 enhancements will be available to you in the 5.x.x version software. If you are not concerned with future enhancements or already have the NX receiver, it works fine with the 4.x.x version software.

The M1XRF2G Receiver front end bandwidth is narrower than the NX receiver and is therefore a little more sensitive. The reason ELK specifies crystal transmitters is to insure that the transmitter transmits within the receivers front end bandwidth. I have witnessed the SAW based GE transmitters jumping outside of the the receivers optimum bandwidth. The SAW transmitters may still work, but with reduced range the futurer away its frequency is from the center frequency of the receiver.

I installed SAW GE transmitters in my house when I had a NX-548 receiver connected to an M1. I changed to the M1XRF2G Receiver and never had any transmitter problems. The transmitters are still in operation today after 5 years. Never changed the batteries, but they are getting due for a change.

 

[GraysonPeddie]

It'd be great if M1XRF2G has a built-in wireless output expander, which with wireless receiver built-in, this acts as a "transeiver." This is great when it comes to wireless sirens.

This is great when it comes to living in an apartment. I just don't want the intruder to follow the wire from the siren to the M1 Control.

 

[Digger]

It'd be great if M1XRF2G has a built-in wireless output expander, which with wireless receiver built-in, this acts as a "transeiver." This is great when it comes to wireless sirens.

This is great when it comes to living in an apartment. I just don't want the intruder to follow the wire from the siren to the M1 Control.

I have tested wireless sirens. They are expensive, bulky, and thus not a huge market out there right now. They are usually AC powered and require their own battery backup which is part of what makes them bulky and expensive. Wireless transmitters only transmit once per hour (unless triggered) but a receiver is always on thus the need for 24 hours of battery backup and then the ability to sound the siren for a minimum of 5 mins per NFPA.

There are other approaches to this. The company I work for started intergrating UL Listed Sirens into our newer keypads. They are tiny and draw about 100 ma (in alarm) or so more than a regular keypad but are EXTREMELY loud. No additional wiring is required since the keypad sits on the normal 4 wire buss. The battery backup is from the panel itself like a normal siren. The pro installer feedback so far has been very positive as it saves a lot of installation time.

For those concerned about having such a loud siren in a keypad there is also a built in PIR that silences the siren for 15 seconds when the user approaches it (one time only) so it can be silenced. the PIR also can wake up the keypad backlight only when people are present and thus conserves standby power amongst other benifets to numerous to list.

 

[GraysonPeddie]

...which then leads to a question "is there any wireless keypads that work with Elk?" The answer is none.

And how bulky can a wireless siren be? AC and battery backup is no big deal.

Is there such thing as wireless RS-485 that connects to the data bus? Costly to make.

Do pro-installers install security systems in a rental apartment?