Elk not getting UPB Status

[RandyKnight]

So I got tired of trying to get the Elk to reliably recognize Insteon devices, running around linking, etc. So I decided to move onto UBP, though I've only got a couple of devices right now.

Everything went great (especially compared to Insteon) but I'm still having one issue. When I turn the change the status from the switch, the Elk doesn't seem to know about it.

The switch is a Simply Automated US2-40 with the rocker + 4 button faceplate. I did notice that the Elk doco says the Elk will not catch status changes made by links. Could it be that since that particular device configuration uses Link 241 to send info to itself, the Elk is not picking it up?
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[RandyKnight]

Figured this one out mysel. I didn't have the right options selected in UPStart. BTW, any reason I can't have multiple Serail interfaces on the UPB network? Switching it back and forth between the Elk and PC is a pain.

 

[Steve]

Yes, the M1 will recognize links just fine. Make sure you have the latest firmware, 1.0.16.

You can certainly have multiple PIMs. I have 2 because you are right that it is a pain to take it off the Elk to use UPStart. I leave the Elk PIM alone and use a second one when using UPStart now.

 

[RandyKnight]

Firmware is 1.0.16 but it doesn't seem to be getting status changes via link (which is what the doco said). Are you saying it should be?

Right now I've just got the one US2-40 set up, plust a pedestal mounted 8 button keybad to active links. The M1 gets status changes when I turn the light on/off from the US2-40, but not from the keypad. I also programmed one of the buttons on the US2-40 to turn on/off the light at 50%. M1 doesn't see that either.

So to summarize, the M1 sees changes from the switch itself, but not from links. But it sounds like you're saying it should see those as well?

Edit: I thought it might be because the link was not programmed in the elk. So I set it up for Lighting device 193 (it is Link ID 1) and that did not help.

 

[bfisher]

I have a similar issue with my HVPro (I think)...

My understanding is that when Links are activated, the UPB switches send out the link information - but not their current values.

Example, if I have a link with 5 switches that gets activated, the link is "announced", but not the value of each of the 5 switches.

I work around this in my HVPro by monitoring my links... and when a link is activated, I kick off a routine that quickly polls each switch for their current state.

There are other ways to accomplish this - but I chose this route so that I can update the Links in UPStart and not need to notify my HVPro that I did it... anytime a link is activated, it knows to just quickly poll the switches for their current value.

Not sure if this is exactly the same issue or not... I suspect it is.

 

[Steve]

Well I guess It depends how the links are setup. I have a US240 with an 8 button faceplate. In UPStart I have the switch configured so in the Transmit Components tab I have 8 link names (Button1-8) and the mode is Link Activator. In the Options tab all the buttons are set to transmit. In ElkRP I have links defined in positions 193-200. They are setup as serial expander, on/off switch.

In the rules, I have rules like:

WHENEVER ButtonX is TURNED ON (the link for that button is activated)
THEN TURN Mylight1 OFF (control any of your defined lighting)
THEN TURN Mylight2 OFF

etc...

If I look at the light status before, Mylight1 and Mylight2 would show as on. When I press ButtonX, Mylight1 and Mylight2 turn off and the status is reflected accordingly.

I think your problem may be that you are sending a link from 1 switch (Link Activate in Transmit table) and you have a Receive table entries in the switches for the link. I have never done that so I'm guessing the switch will respond to the receive table entry but not send a status out. I am just capturing the link in the Elk and having the Elk issues the commands instead of configuring receive table entries and when Elk issues the command it then knows the status.

Remember, UPB can be used standalone without any controllers and thats probably what you configured and are seeing. Since you have an Elk you can use it as described above and you should be good.

I think the only negative to the method I described is you can only do what the Elk supports, for example right now you can't make a light blink or change fade rate as you could if configuring receive table. But I think Elk is working on getting those features in there...

 

[RandyKnight]

That makes perfect sense. So instead of having the M1 detect the change, have it make the change. I'll play with that and see how that works out.

 

[bfisher]

this would work (at least in my HVPro, so I assume in M1 also). I did it the other way (using UPstart programming of links) so I could see how to do it... and never changed it!

The other way to do it (again, at least in HVPro) is to use the link functionality of UPB, and then do a "set light level" type of function in logic. This doesn't change the switch status - just refreshes the level that is set in the controllers table. Again, I opted against this in case I change the link functionality in UPStart, I didn't want to have to change it in my HVPro as well. As far as I was concerned, kicking off the polling routine was easiest and most reliable.

 

[RandyKnight]

I think I've almost got this but something is not quite right. I've got the following devices and links set up in UPStart:

Unit 002 - HAI 8-button house controller. No load controlled here, only used to transmit links.

Unit 004 - US 2-40 w/ single rocker, controlling a single load

Link 001 - Set up with Unit 002, Button 1 as Controller, Indicator is also Unit 002, Button 1, no presets

Link 002 - Set up with Unit 002, Button 2 as Controller, Indicator is also Unit 002, Button 1, no presets

Both buttons are configured as Toggle Buttons.

In the Elk, I"ve got Unit 004 (the light) at Device 4 (A4) and Links 1 and 2 and 193 and 194, respectiviely.

I've got the following rules set up:

Rule 1:
WHENEVER Button 1 [193(M1)] IS TURNED OFF
THEN TURN Office Light/CF [4(A4)] OFF, FADE RATE = 0

Rule 2:
WHENEVER Button 2 [194(M2)] IS TURNED ON
THEN ANNOUNCE TEMPERATURE READING OF Keypad 01 (KP 1)

Rule 2 works as expected, but Rule 1 does not. When I toggle Button 1 on and off, there is no change in the light.

What am I missing here?

 

[bfisher]

I don't have an M1 to give you specifics, but something that could trip me up in my HVPro would have been the fade rate. If my unit, fade rates needed to be defined (just once, first time you connect to UPB) (there is now a wizard to automatically do it, but originally there wasn't).

Can you tell in your M1 - does it recognize that Button1 is turned off? How about turned on? What happens if button 1 is already off and you tell it to turn off? Does it need the transition? (I doubt it, just something to check)

Sorry I can't help more - no M1 Hopefully it triggered a thought though that leads you to a solution.

 

[Steve]

Randy,

What is your intent with the button controller? Do you want it where Button 1 ALWAYS turns the Office light OFF, or toggles it?

I think the problem is your rule. It may seem counter intuitive but I think the button just transmits the link when pressed (turned ON). not released, so, I would change your rule1 as follows:

Rule 1:
WHENEVER Button 1 [193(M1)] IS TURNED ON
THEN TURN Office Light/CF [4(A4)] OFF, FADE RATE = 0

That should always turn your office light OFF when button 1 is pressed (regardless of current state).

If you wanted on/off control from a single button you probably need to make it a toggle, otherwise you may need to use 2 buttons - 1 for on, 1 for off. Since you have the lighted buttons, a toggle should work ok. That rule would look like:

Rule 1:
WHENEVER Button 1 [193(M1)] IS TURNED ON
THEN TOGGLE STATE OF Office Light/CF [4(A4)], FADE RATE = 0

 

[RandyKnight]

That new rule got me closer but still not there. I confirmed that the Elk does not see an OFF at all. With the light set to toggle when ON is received, it worked a couple of times but not consistently. Either way, if it can't identfy the off, that doesn't work either as I'd have to press the buton twice to get the indicator light on the button to sync up with the status of the light.

Is there a way I can get the Elk to poll the status of the devices like bfisher does on his HVPro?

 

[Steve]

Well I don't have a lighted HAI, just the unlit SAI so I can't test that part. The strange part is the inconsistency - should work the same each time unless there is another issue like noise or something? If you are controlling the lighting either via rules or local switch then the Elk should know the status, and I would assume the light on the button controller would track it. The button is just a link activator, not an on/off switch like a load control rocker. If the Elk has the status, the button should simply toggle the state without having to click multiple times to sync. I know you can issue status command to the Elk but I don't know of a command to tell it to poll all devices.

 

[bfisher]

Either way, if it can't identfy the off, that doesn't work either as I'd have to press the buton twice to get the indicator light on the button to sync up with the status of the light.

Couldn't you tie the status of the light to the link? So when the light is on, the link is also on...

 

[RandyKnight]

Made some progress but still not quite there. I talked to Jim at AO and he's got Elk/UPB working at his house with all status, etc. working correctly. He said the way he did it was to not use the non-link Devices at all. Use links for everything, including just controlling one load. The Elk will see the link turn on/off and update the device (link) accordingly.

So I whacked everytying I had and set up my UPStart as follows:

There is a single link (Link ID 1) which just turns on the light in question to 100%. The switch is configured as Link Activator on the top rocker and Deactivator on the bottom rocker, both for Link ID 1. The HAI lighted keypad has button one configured as a toggle for Link ID 1. Everything works perfectly from a UPB standpoint.

I then configured Elk Lighting device 193 (UPP Link ID 1). At this point, everything works as it should when the M1 turns the link on or off, but the Elk status was still not updating correctly (at least per the keypad). Jim thought this might be due to the keypad not reporting status correctly and I should try using ElkRM for status as that's what he does. So I've got that on order.

In the meantime, I figured why not go to the source for status, the controller itself.
So I set up a rule as follows:

WHENEVER EVERY 5 SECONDS
AND OfficeLight (193) IS ON
THEN ANNOUNCE KeyPad Panic Alarm

The rule works great, when the device is on, it talks, when it is off, it does not. Same results when using hte Elk to turn the device on/off. Everything works. Interestingly, turning the link ON remotely works. I can use the switch or the HAI button and turn the link on, the elk sees it and speaks the announcement every 5 seconds. But if I turn it OFF remotely, the Elk does not see that and continues speaking.

Oh so close .....