HLC mode and keeping Status synced in OP2

[wdeertz]

I've read through past posts and think I understand how the HLC mode works with UPB links and OP2 but would like to verify with forum experts how the syncing works. I have my system setup with all rooms configured as HLC mode and the standard 6 allocated UPB links of on/off/80%/60%/40%/20% for each unit. For rooms 21 and up I have these rooms defined as UPB to allow me to use these UBP links (other than the standard pre allocated) for other lighting scenes.

So my questions are:

1) when one of the standard allocated UPB links is executed (could be from PC Access programming, switch button, etc) does the OP2 automatically poll the status of all units in that room? Does this work both for when the UPB link is activated and deactivated?

2) I have a few lighting scenes which contain units across multiple rooms (let's say rooms 1, 2 and 3). So if I use one of the standard allocated UPB links for room 1 across these 3 rooms, would OP2 automatically poll all units in room 1 and to keep OP2 unit status proper I would program PC Access to poll status of all units in rooms 2 and 3? In PC Access would I need to have both a trigger for the UPB Link On and Off?

3) To get instant all on lights and all off lights I've created two separate UPB links for all units in the house. In PC Access I have programmed to update status of all units when either the all on or all off is executed. It's takes about 3-5 seconds per unit to poll status so it takes a while to get an accurate status for my 35+ units. Is there any way to speed up the status polling process or another approach to use to keep all units status accurate in OP2? As a catch all I have OP2 poll the current status of all units every 3 hours, given the OP2 limited CPU power does this put an unnecessary burden on the system.

 

[ano]

1) when one of the standard allocated UPB links is executed (could be from PC Access programming, switch button, etc) does the OP2 automatically poll the status of all units in that room? Does this work both for when the UPB link is activated and deactivated?

Yes. and Yes.
 

2) I have a few lighting scenes which contain units across multiple rooms (let's say rooms 1, 2 and 3). So if I use one of the standard allocated UPB links for room 1 across these 3 rooms, would OP2 automatically poll all units in room 1 and to keep OP2 unit status proper I would program PC Access to poll status of all units in rooms 2 and 3? In PC Access would I need to have both a trigger for the UPB Link On and Off?

HLC only works in one room at a time. If your links go across multiple rooms, you will have to poll those devices yourself, or trigger in such a way where the panels polls them. 
 
Links 241 and 242 are reserved for switches requesting that status be checked, but since all switches send the same two links, the panel determines which switch is sending it a particular link.  PC Access is not a "switch" so it doesn't trigger polling from what I have seen, even if link 241 or 242 is sent.
 

3) To get instant all on lights and all off lights I've created two separate UPB links for all units in the house. In PC Access I have programmed to update status of all units when either the all on or all off is executed. It's takes about 3-5 seconds per unit to poll status so it takes a while to get an accurate status for my 35+ units. Is there any way to speed up the status polling process or another approach to use to keep all units status accurate in OP2? As a catch all I have OP2 poll the current status of all units every 3 hours, given the OP2 limited CPU power does this put an unnecessary burden on the system.

I'm not sure why you need such accurate status reporting of lights.  Is it that important?  If your not basing an action of the status of a light, why are you so concerned with their status?  HLC status tracking is there so the room controllers and house controller panels light up correctly, and it works well with that.  But if you HAVE to know the status of every light all the time, you should just use plain UPB and do all the status polling yourself instead of figuring out which polling the panel will do and which polling you will do. 
 
UPB from its very design was not designed to have perfect status reporting for links.  That is just how the standard was designed. HLC does track status for its own purposes so that room controllers and house controllers are correct, but its not a full 100% tracking solution.  If you need full 100% tracking of every device and you use links, maybe UPB/HLC is not your best choice. 
 
Honestly, if you want a light off, just send the OFF signal, and it will go OFF.  It seems like you are wasting a bunch of status tracking for what?  So you can know the status of a light and only turn it OFF if its ON?  Why? Just turn it OFF and its OFF.
 
Is there a reason why you need such precise status tracking of every light? It seems like you are wasting lots of powerline and bandwidth and greatly increasing the chance of collisions just to find the status of a light that nobody really cares about.
 
With powerline transmissions, the mantra is to ONLY send the bare minimum transmissions needed over the powerline.  That is why links were created in the first place. So one small packet of information could control LOTS of lights all at once.  If you REALLY need 100% status always, UPB is probably not your best choice. 

 

[wdeertz]

Ano, thanks for confirming the above matters, my understanding was consistent with your responses but good to confirm.

As to your questions on why it's so important to know the lights status, it's not "life or death" important but rather a reflection of my OCD anal tendencies. I do like the robustness and reliability of UBP so am confident I made the right choice on lighting standard. In the end I'll just poll the units in the other rooms when using UPB links. I'll probably get rid of the every 3 hour poll status of all units as this is probably overkill and puts an unnecessary load on my system. Thanks again for the inputs.

 

[ano]

Back in the X-10 days there were 2-way X-10 and i was like you, always checking the status after sending a command, because with X-10 not everything always worked, but the reality was, the status checking created additional traffic which ultimately made the whole thing LESS reliable which required MORE status checking ect.  In the end, the solution was worse than the problem.  UPB is pretty much 100% reliable, and status checking occurs faster, but still X-10 and UPB are both powerline technologies with many of the same characteristics.  
 
I'm not exactly sure how the Omni does its status check, but my guess is it is very optimised because it occurs very fast considering it could be checking 6 or 7 devices.  My guess is that if you do these status checks yourself, they will be much slower. 
 
If you REALLY need status checking for some purpose, I'd recommend you do it in the same way the panel does it, after you use a link, then get the status of those lights, and leave it at that. If you use the panel links, then the Omni does that for you.  Better yet, only check the status of a light before you have to know the status of that light, and reduce all traffic to a minimum.

 

[Desert_AIP]

This thread has a lot of HLC info and how the Omni behaves with the various links
 
http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/26748-upb-configuration-into-omnipro/
 
 
For polling tips and tricks, see my reserved use of Link D in each room.

http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/26748-upb-configuration-into-ominpro/?p=218328

Essentially I do not program any of the switches in a room to respond to Link D for that room.
When I have a link that affects multiple rooms, I piggy back the Link D transmission for the other rooms.
 
The Omni will then poll the first room normally and then respond to Link D in the other rooms by polling their statuses.
It's a programming shortcut to take advantage of embedded functions.
 
From the user perspective it is seamless.
The first link changes all of the lights simultaneously, then the Omni spends the next several seconds doing house keeping by polling the several rooms in the background.
 
The only instant status update will be in the primary room.
When the link is sent the Omni assumes all the units are on or off as appropriate to the default behavior of the links, so it changes the statuses to reflect this.
Then it polls all of the units to determine their actual statuses.
 
For instance, the A link may be a default of 80%, but if you modified one light to be at 50% when responding to the link, the status will initially show 80% and then be modified to 50% after the UPB delay.

 

[ano]

For polling tips and tricks, see my reserved use of Link D in each room.

http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/26748-upb-configuration-into-ominpro/?p=218328

Essentially I do not program any of the switches in a room to respond to Link D for that room.
When I have a link that affects multiple rooms, I piggy back the Link D transmission for the other rooms.

That would be an option, but for those that use the the Leviton HLC Room Controller Panels, its not very practical. These controllers only have 6 buttons, and two of these are all on and all off. That leaves 4 scenes for everything else, which isn't a whole lot.  In my modest house, I'm hard-pressed to fit some rooms into 4 scenes, let alone 3 scenes, or a 25% reduction. I can't see most people who use Leviton Room Controllers doing that, but if you get by with just three scenes per room, its a possibility.
 
There are certainly lots of ways to hack HLC, and for some people, that probably works, but if you use HLC as it was intended by Leviton, with a room controllers in each room and a few house controllers scattered about, it really is a great way to control your lights.  Its very intuitive, its logical, and it looks very high-end.  I've said it before, that HLC was the best thing Leviton/HAI ever invented. We never even touch switches anymore in our house, everything is scenes, and with the room controllers its easy to see which scene is active. The wife even loves it, and there are very few home automation things she has embraced, let alone even used.

 

[Desert_AIP]

HLC is flexible enough to meet the needs of various users.
Understanding its rules and inner workings allows each individual to tailor the behavior to maximize efficiency to meet individual tastes.
 
I never cared for the appearance of the HAI room controllers, so I don't use them.
I have installed several of the PCS 7 button controllers and really like them in this role.
With the exception of the Kitchen and Master Bath I don't need more than a couple of links in a room.
The whole house links require additional programming either way.

 

[wdeertz]

Ano and Desert, thanks for all the inputs and tips. In particular I went back and reread a few of Desert's prior posts to relearn a few of the basic HLC setups. I find every time I reread some of these posts I learn something new so they are very helpful and much appreciated.

I didn't realize the all on/off commands will update the status of all units, presumably only on those rooms which have the all on/off set to "yes" in the PCA units section, is this correct?

Since I was controlling all units in my house with separate UPB links to get the instaneous effect rather than room by room I set the all on/off in PCA to "no". I will reset this to "yes" and can now eliminate quite a few lines of code in PCA. I also like the suggested scene D in each room for checking status and will utilize this on the rooms which have an available scene.

Thanks again for all your inputs.

 

[StarTrekDoors]

Is there a reason why you need such precise status tracking of every light? It seems like you are wasting lots of powerline and bandwidth and greatly increasing the chance of collisions just to find the status of a light that nobody really cares about.

 
Personally I wish precise status tracking was available so that Snap Link wouldn't show some devices as being partially on (dimmed) and it would be nice to be able to know at a glance which lights are on whether than having to click Off when the device is already Off, so as to know it is Off.
 
The attached image is similar to devices not on that appear on and the same appears on the OT7.

 

[ano]

While its certainly ideal to know the status of all devices all the time, with a powerline interface this creates lots of traffic.  If a link, for example, turns on 15 lights each to a different dim level, that can be done with one very short link command, but the reporting of the status of 15 lights takes LOTS of bandwidth, and while lights are all reporting their status, no other commands can be sent over the powerline. In fact links are designed to minimize traffic in the first place by letting many lights be controlled by a simple link.  Even status reporting of when a light is switched manually is an OPTION in UPB, and NOT automatic.  Again, to minimize powerline transmissions where they are not needed.