Elk output not turning on when zone insecure

[IVB]

I'm trying to set up an Elk-120 to use as my doorbell. The doorbell is wired to a zone, has worked fine for years as I was using CQC for the doorbell.wav playback. 
 
But now I can't get the Elk to turn on an output (relay) so I can provide a momentary power pulse to the 120. 
 
Here's the rule. The funny bit is that the announcement goes off just fine, but the relay never turns on. I've sat there and watched it. And, the test of the rule goes fine.
 
Any hints?
 
 
 
WHENEVER Inside Doorbell (Zn 58) BECOMES SECURE
    THEN ANNOUNCE Inside Doorbell (Zn 58)
    THEN ANNOUNCE Miscellaneous 1 (vm239)
    THEN TURN Inside Doorbell (Out 17) ON FOR 4 SECS
 

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

What is output 17 on your system? Is it the on-board digital outputs going to a relay or are you using a relay expansion card (I forgot the numbering scheme)?

 

[IVB]

I have an expander board. The rule works just fine if I press the "test" button, but when I press the doorbell only the announce goes off.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Just for grins, can you have the relay turn on as the first thing in that rule instead of the last?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Also, if you want to test the relay to make sure wiring and all is correct, you can do that directly from the keypad.
 
From the user's manual:
 

 
OUTPUTS:   Provides the ability to view and control individual outputs. An

 
output may be a relay used to signal or switch a device On or Off. Outputs

 
are not necessarily a physical form. Outputs must first be assigned and

 
programmed by the installer before you can utilize them in this menu. A relay

 
might be used to control a Pool pump motor. When this output is On the

 
pump would be running. When the output is Off the pump would be off.

 
To view the state of an OUTPUT, or to control it:

 
1. Starting from the .View/Control Automation Functions. menu, locate

 
the Outputs screen and press the RIGHT arrow key to select.

 
2. Use the UP or DOWN arrow keys to scroll through the list of available

 
outputs and view their current state. To jump directly to a specific

 
output, enter it.s 3 digit number. (see note below)

 
3. Press the # key to toggle the state of a displayed output. E.G.: If the

 
state is On, pressing # will turn it Off.

 
4. Press ELK to backup or select another sub menu. Press * to exit.
 

 

[IVB]

Tried all various positions, but didn't notice that manual modification of state. I'll try that tomorrow afternoon (too late to try ringing doorbell now). Thanks.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Did you get this worked out (curious)?

 

[IVB]

what curious timing; on the one hand no, although manually turning on output 17 for 4 seconds via CQC resulted in the Elk-120 detecting the trip and playing the doorbell sound.
 
But then literally 15m ago, i'm working at home, and all of a sudden the doorbell goes off. Fedex guy. Sadly not with an automatedoulet or newegg delivery, but piperlime. And now when I press the doorbell, it works.
 
I wonder if my wife installed some form of biometric sensor to detect her shoe delivery, but didn't realize i'd be the one to answer the door

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Well, I suspect its the actual pulse length of the doorbell detector.  I believe it is right on the edge between being detected and being ignored via the Elk input.
 
What doesn't make sense to that theory though is the fact that you stated (above) the two announcements work 'fine'.  Does this mean every single time you press the doorbell button?
 
Also, can you change the input zone that is detecting the doorbell to 'fast loop'?

 

[IVB]

yes, that is the bizarre thing. Zone going secure was clearly being picked up by the Elk, put it in a Fast Loop Response. The Elk just got lazy and didn't want to follow one of the rules. I even sat at the relay expander board and watched for the pretty little light.

 

[IVB]

oh also, i had one of the kids press&hold the button to see if it was a timing problem.
 
I'll keep an eye on it to see if it continues to work or if its intermittent. I hate the intermittent problems.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Be aware (I'm going off of memory and I'm old) that depending on methodology deployed for doorbell detection, some 'might' use the initial current in-rush, therefore holding the button down will not necessarily prove anything (again, just not sure/can't remember well, but wanted to get this info to you as you were troubleshooting).

 

[IVB]

Honestly this is just a simple wire into an Elk zone. Worked perfectly fine with CQC until Windows 7 changed permissions. Given that the verbal announcement rules work, I am at a loss to explain why the output change rules wouldn't work. Very strange.