Elk P412 powering an M1G panel + accessories?

[chrisexv6]

The current draw calculator says Ill need some external power for my planned system (few motions, couple glassbreaks, Uplink 2500, smokes, etc). In the interest of less wallwarts I was looking at something like the P412(K). I know it outputs 12V directly........can the M1G support that? I know it comes with the 16.5VAC xformer that feeds the power board that charges the battery......do I just "abandon" the power board and run 12V directly into the M1G panel?

Thanks in advance.

-Chris

 

[gatchel]

Did you look at the P212S? It is supervised by the Elk M1 and connects to the data bus.

The 12vdc power to the Elk might cause an AC loss alarm. There was a thread here about it somewhere. I can't remember if it can be bypassed or not.

 

[gatchel]

I was mistaken. Read this thread.
http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7990&hl=elk+with+power&fromsearch=1

 

[Del91574]

It can be done, however the question remains of should it be done, and honestly, IMHO, I say no.

If using the P412, I'd run AC power straight to it and splice hardwire straight in the can, no plug, then use the plug in transformer for the panel.

 

[chrisexv6]

Thanks for the replies.

My goal was to have one point of power for the panel, accessory peripherals (like an Uplink 2500), contacts that need power, etc. Just wanted to keep the wallwart count down if possible. Since the panel uses 16.5 and not 12 Ill just use a wallwart for the panel, and maybe pick up the 412 to use for everything else....not sure if I want to go terminal blocks or the more expensive Elk power distribution route, but that I can decide on later.

Im also at least a little surprised Elk doesnt have a power supply that can output 16.5V to power their panel, in addition to other things. Even their switchable voltage PSU doesnt have 16.5.

 

[gatchel]

16.5 volts ac is used because it is a simple transformer. Less can go wrong with a transformer when compared to a DC supply. 16.5 volts also gives them enough power to use for different things on the M1 like system power and charging the battery.

Most alarm systems have an ac transformer that is the power supply for the panel, not a dc one.

 

[chrisexv6]

Thanks again. I do see the advantages ("KISS"), but have to ask the question: are true professional installs fed off a bunch of wallwarts? It just seems less elegant to me to have it all setup that way. I'll end up needing 2 or 3 wallwarts once Im done and its not even what I would call an advanced setup.

 

[gatchel]

Thanks again. I do see the advantages ("KISS"), but have to ask the question: are true professional installs fed off a bunch of wallwarts? It just seems less elegant to me to have it all setup that way. I'll end up needing 2 or 3 wallwarts once Im done and its not even what I would call an advanced setup.

Yes. Professional installs do have multiple transformers depending on what the customer wants to pay for and what system components are used.
When you're in business to make money, you use the transformer that comes with the alarm panel kit. I will suffice. It will work for years and it does look less attractive. The reality is, you will lose a job over a $100 additional power supply and no one will ever see the transformer, for the most part.

The transformer can also be screwed in to the outlet which will prevent some cleaner from unplugging it to use a vacuum and forgetting to plug it back in. If you had an additional power supply it would have to be hard wired in to prevent accidental unplugging. That all adds to costs.

Spend the money and do it how you feel most comfortable. The only person you have to question it will be you. I typically do "stuff" at home that could never be done at work simply because of the cost.

You would only need one wall wart for the Elk if you decided not to go the power supply route for panel power. You can install an external power supply with a power distribution board to keep it cleaner and feed any additional devices you may have.

 

[Del91574]

Thanks again. I do see the advantages ("KISS&quot, but have to ask the question: are true professional installs fed off a bunch of wallwarts? It just seems less elegant to me to have it all setup that way. I'll end up needing 2 or 3 wallwarts once Im done and its not even what I would call an advanced setup.

Depends, and frankly, it also comes down to the AHJ and municipality. In my state, technically anyone that holds a limited low voltage license can't do any work involving anything higher than 25V, 5A. Some AHJ's mandate a hardwired transformer on any install that has a fire alarm involved, even in a straight residential combo install. Also, I have friends that are contractors in other states, and as an example, they are allowed to to all their HV interconnects up to an existing electrician installed breaker or circuit.

The reality is, as pointed out, most typical installs will have, at best, a second power supply, which if 120V is needed, most guys will simply install a 3 wire "whip" and plug it to the nearest outlet, with the OEM transformer for the panel plugged in wherever convenient. I doubt that most HO's would like to pay the cost for a system and then a secondary cost for an electrician to wire in a new branch circuit..then find out they need a panel swap or a subpanel....

In an ideal world, I'd love to see all the hardware, panels, supplies, and like, all have 120V hardwired connections and a service switch inside to disconnect AC and batteries (for many reasons) but I doubt I'll ever see it.