Elk reprting "Water Alarm...Kitchen Motion", but only in Stay mode?

[IVB]

All of a sudden yesterday the Elk started reporting "Water Alarm....Kitchen Motion" (well, i heard it once as kitchen as i was walking through there, it might have said other rooms based on where motion is). I checked, there's no water in there. The wiring hasn't even been touched. Plus, this only happens in Stay Mode.

No Elk software/firmware updates were done.

I just disabled the Water Alarm zone, and now it works fine. I'm packing up for a trip, so i'd rather not re-enable it and have more alarms go off, but has anyone seen this, or have a theory as to why it could be happening?

 

[BrettS]

All of a sudden yesterday the Elk started reporting "Water Alarm....Kitchen Motion" (well, i heard it once as kitchen as i was walking through there, it might have said other rooms based on where motion is). I checked, there's no water in there. The wiring hasn't even been touched. Plus, this only happens in Stay Mode.

No Elk software/firmware updates were done.

I just disabled the Water Alarm zone, and now it works fine. I'm packing up for a trip, so i'd rather not re-enable it and have more alarms go off, but has anyone seen this, or have a theory as to why it could be happening?

If nothing in the software has been changed, then I'm thinking that your water sensors may be failing. I'd try to disconnect the sensors and see if it happens again... maybe manually trip the water zones to see if the same thing happens.

Brett

 

[BrettS]

Oh, and... um... get a voltmeter and check the sensors too

Brett

 

[IVB]

yeah, i'll try that. But the funny thing is that it's only failing in Stay mode, and almost immediately at that. i'd think it would fail in any mode if there was really water/short/faulty sensor.

 

[BrettS]

yeah, i'll try that. But the funny thing is that it's only failing in Stay mode, and almost immediately at that. i'd think it would fail in any mode if there was really water/short/faulty sensor.

Yeah, I agree, but I wonder if it was somehow configured to respond to the water sensors only in stay mode all along. The whole thing is a bit odd, though.

Brett

 

[Spanky]

IVB,
"Water Alarm....Kitchen Motion" sounds a little fishey.

The kitchen motion is probably on an interior zone, but should not be triggered from a water alarm.

I do not have a clue unless an index pointer in the voice module got off. Try cycling power and see if that fixes it.

 

[IVB]

Will do spanky, thanks for the reply. I'll do that in a week, upon my return from my vacation. Everything's working now since I pulled out the water zone, I ain't touching a thing before I leave in the am

Besides, maybe this is the Elk Artificial Intelligence telling me I should have put a water sensor in the kitchen...

 

[Spanky]

There are some cases where I believe spirits in homes have played tricks on the home owners through the security system. Like setting off the alarm in the wee hours of the morning for no reason on random zones.

The best one was several years back when my outside dog started barking close to midnight. Suddenly, he came running to the house in a dog's terror yelp. About the time the dog reached the house, the fire alarm triggered from an upstairs smoke detector. No explaination and it never happened again! The house was on a lake and about a month earlier a waterskier died in an accident in front of the house.

 

[IVB]

Quick Question, and one finding.

The water sensor zone was indeed shorted, read 0 Ohms resistance across the wires.

The water sensor is on an expander. This morning I had a burglar alarm (just as I had ordered brunch around the corner), hauled ass home. 4 motion sensors on the same expander were reporting intrusions.

Could a short on one zone (where it's set to disabled but wires still plugged in) cause motion sensors on the same expander to fail?

 

[Digger]

Quick Question, and one finding.

The water sensor zone was indeed shorted, read 0 Ohms resistance across the wires.

The water sensor is on an expander. This morning I had a burglar alarm (just as I had ordered brunch around the corner), hauled ass home. 4 motion sensors on the same expander were reporting intrusions.

Could a short on one zone (where it's set to disabled but wires still plugged in) cause motion sensors on the same expander to fail?

I dont think the water sensor had anything to do with todays alarm.

Sometimes if multiple motions trip at the same time like this either the motions or the expander (or both) lost power or the common back to the panel.

 

[IVB]

Quick Question, and one finding.

The water sensor zone was indeed shorted, read 0 Ohms resistance across the wires.

The water sensor is on an expander. This morning I had a burglar alarm (just as I had ordered brunch around the corner), hauled ass home. 4 motion sensors on the same expander were reporting intrusions.

Could a short on one zone (where it's set to disabled but wires still plugged in) cause motion sensors on the same expander to fail?

I dont think the water sensor had anything to do with todays alarm.

Sometimes if multiple motions trip at the same time like this either the motions or the expander (or both) lost power or the common back to the panel.

Well, it happened again. Not an alarm, but I couldn't arm it as all the motions failed. Either power or common seems right as none of them had the little blue LED light up as I'd walk by.

A power cycle of the Elk had them all back & happy. Any thoughts about why this would occur or where I should investigate?

The motions are already on their own alternate power, not drawing from the main. I could put the expansion hub & boards themselves on their own battery & PS if that would do anything, i've got the parts & have been meaning to do that anyhow.

 

[mustangcoupe]

lets see... if you didnt have the little blue lights then I would suspect the alternate power supply went south. But you said you power cycled the ELK? does this include the alternate power? If not I would check wiring for tight connectors and or broken/loose wires.

 

[Spanky]

Check your log to see if the input expander is losing communication with the M1. If the input expander goes missing, alarms will be triggered. All zones on the input expander that goes missing will become violated.

 

[Digger]

It sounds like the aux power is powering the zone expander and the motions. If there is a fault in the power supply wiring you would have the symptoms you describe in my opinion.

What is the rating of the PS and what is the load? Also where is the PS located? The reason I ask is that I was testing a PS recently and it was near is rated load (admitedly a little over as I like tolerances) and in an eleveated ambient and the PTC nuisance tripped on me. Its a design qualification test so we just have to tweak the design.

 

[IVB]

The alternate power supply is powering the motions but not the expander. All motions are being triggered on the expander. One other thing I just realized is that I don't think my wireless receiver is working either, so now i'm wondering whether the hub is having issues.

The logs showed nothing, and a power cycle made it all go happy, but that only resets hub + expander, so now i'm wondering whether to get Martin to FEDEX me another hub + expander and swap those out one at a time. Of course, i'm leaving town again in 2 weeks but this time solo, and the wife won't want to be without a security system.

Since the hub + expander are powered off the main board (which is still well under tolerance load-wise), I could just put in that 3rd PS + Battery I bought but never installed to see if that does the trick too.