ELK Serial Interface

[rappa]

After much reading (mostly on this forum), I'm leaning towards the ELK-M1. The main driver for this decision is ascii rs232 interface since I plan on writing software to "talk" with the Elk. Before I pull the trigger, I was hoping to get some answers. I'm interested in receiving the following events via the serial interface, but I have no idea how feasible this is:

- doors (open/close)
- caddx wireless events (windows/motions/keychain)
- w800rf motion detectors (connected via serial expander)
- contact closures
- notification of when rules are triggered
- sunrise/sunset events
- temperature/thermostat
- z-wave (via serial interface)

as for control:

- arm/disarm
- speak voice commands
- drive relays
- open/close outputs

I plan to start out with serial interface, then migrate at some point to the ethernet interface. Is the same ascii protocol available via the ethernet interface? Thanks.

 

[Spanky]

Everything you want to do looks very reasonable.

The M1XSP serial port expander sits on the RS-485 data bus that also connects to keypads and zone expanders. You can poll for any data using the ASCII Protocol. All of the Event driven data is not sent automatically to the serial port expanders, but everything does go to the main RS-232 serial port on the M1 board.

If you are want to write software that will poll for some of the data the M1XSP will do the job. If you want to know immediately when an event changes, like someone opens a door, the Main M1 serial port will be faster since it sends the changes out with no polling required.

The M1XEP Ethernet Module is the best of all worlds. Up to 30 connections may be made through it and you will get the immediate event change data with no polling required.

On the Main M1 serial port, polling is an option. For example if you want to get the status of all the zones, you can poll for it and get an immediate update of status.

 

[rappa]

All of the Event driven data is not sent automatically to the serial port expanders, but everything does go to the main RS-232 serial port on the M1 board.

Ok, so I will plug the computer into the main serial. If I hook a w800rf into a serial expander, will I see the events from the w800rf on the main serial?

Could you point me to some documentation on this?

Thanks

 

[Spanky]

The w800rf connects to a M1XSP. The M1XSP serial port expander handles the data conversion from the w800 to the M1. You should download the M1XSP instruction manual from the ELK website: M1XSP Manual

Any event that is triggered will be echoed out the Main Serial Port 0.

 

[electron]

If you need help on how to use the W800RF32 with the Elk M1, check out this animation:

http://www.cocoontech.com/w800rf32.htm

Keep in mind that this is only for the security sensors (DS10A), regular X10-RF devices (e.g., palmpads, MS14A motion sensors) do not require any special configuration, just treat them like a normal X10 appliance module.

 

[rappa]

I would like to be able to receive the following HVAC events off the serial: heat/cool/fan. Would this be possible with any of the supported thermostats (e.g. RCS TR-16)? Thanks.

 

[Lagerhead]

The M1XEP Ethernet Module is the best of all worlds.  Up to 30 connections may be made through it and you will get the immediate event change data with no polling required. 

Can you expand on this a bit?

An ethernet-enabled API would make the M1 a very attractive replacement for my old-but-still-serviceable security system. I am interested in both status from and control input to the M1.

What are the "client-side" requirements for interfacing? What form do the messages take? What protocols are supported? Is scripting (e.g. PHP) ordinarily satisfactory, or do I need to use a compiled language (e.g. C, VB)?

Dave

== Update ==

A short time after this posting I found the answer, on the Elk forum, that the M1XEP enables "serial over IP." With the ASCII Protocol available over IP, everything else pretty much falls into place.

Was this fact available from Elk so plainly that I stupidly overlooked it in some considerable time spent in online research?

I would still like to know more about the RP software (user guide, ideally) as part of planning my installation and the budget.

 

[electron]

The protocol is very well documented, and very easy to implement. My own my.Elk driver is a vbscript, while the new version of my.Elk runs in PHP.

 

[sharby]

My company and technicians have lab tested the ELK M1G thoroughly and have good answers to your questions. At this time, we've identified 3 major bugs that we are waiting for fixes on. Other then that, the system has the ability to be a premiere choice for Fire/Burg/HA.

doors (open/close)
- caddx wireless events (windows/motions/keychain)
Just ordered a Caddx Receiver. The ELK version was held-off due to a bug. I will upgrade to their receiver when released officially.


- w800rf motion detectors (connected via serial expander)
Being lab tested

- contact closures

No Problem

- notification of when rules are triggered
Iffy - beware that "DELAY" rules use extensive code and must use a minimum of 2 separate rules. If you are dealing with non-serial port commands, you'll be fine. I can elaborate more offline or on another post


- sunrise/sunset events
No Problem

- temperature/thermostat
Iffy - Currently there is no way to change the temperature from the KP2 keypad unless you write a rule. The RM software is the only way to change the temp besides scheduling temperature changes.
Also, with the Aprilaire 88xx family, there is no way to send serial commands directly to the stats (Text Messaging, direct changes, etc).



- z-wave (via serial interface)
Unknown

as for control:

- arm/disarm
- speak voice commands
- drive relays
- open/close outputs


ALL GOOD









-=*Sharby*=-

 

[upstatemike]

- temperature/thermostat
Iffy - Currently there is no way to change the temperature from the KP2 keypad unless you write a rule. The RM software is the only way to change the temp besides scheduling temperature changes.
Also, with the Aprilaire 88xx family, there is no way to send serial commands directly to the stats (Text Messaging, direct changes, etc).

This turned out to be a showstopper for me. I was planning to migrate most of my Stargate stuff over to an M1 that I purchased back in November until I discovered the inability to control thermostats from the keypads. Now I have to leave the thermostats on the Stargate (I have 6 cheap Stargate LCD keypads currently) and come up with a new overall strategy for the future. (Will be posting my never used TS07 Elk Touch Screen for sale here later this week).

I think the weak thermostat support must just be a security industry thing. I looked at the HAI Omni-Pro II and the keypad support for thermostats is poor on that system also. They allow you to adjust them at least but it involves punching in the temperature you want from some obscure keypad menu... definitely not something you can expect grandma is ever going to be able to master.

It seems like it would be simple to have a keypad work just like a remote thermostat with up and down buttons to adjust the setpoint and left/right buttons to scroll through the list of thermostats if you have more than one. That is how the Stargate keypad works and it is just as easy to use as standing at the actual thermostat. (No learning curve for the elderly or technology averse).

As I say, it appears to be a security industry thing that the value of having a simple thermostat interface from keypads just isn't recognized.

 

[sharby]

Upstate Mike,

A dozen of my customers have Stargate Systems (including myself) and was convinced by SmartHome USA to go with ELK due to a Rock solid Alarm system with full Home automation. I spent a few thousand dollars on M1G's, serial expanders, webexpanders, and relayboards in order to replicated basic UPB and IF/THEN events.

I created a serial interface between Stargate's COM3 and ELK. I am able to send Temperature data to Stargate to display on the LCD96 keypad. However, putting temperature settings from ELK(Using the Aprilaire stat) is not possible to stuff into a variable and send to SG. So right now the ELK panel is acting as an Alarm and Weigand entrance panel (Expensive alarm system versus my Ademco Panels). I'm using SG to run all my lighting, Infrared, and Color Kinetics. For now, the multiple migrations to ELK are on hold for all my customers.

I'd be glad to share my code on another post.

Lastly, it is possible to buy another Serial Interface and bridge it on the Aprilaire Serial Interface and pipe ASCII commands to your Aprilaire stats. Needless to say, it should be coded to inject ASCII directly on that serial port like you can with SG.


-=*Sharby*=-

 

[upstatemike]

Thanks for the ideas Sharby! Not sure where I'm going yet maybe I'll keep the ELK panel for fire/security/access control and use Stargate for HVAC, IR, voice alerts, and status via LCD Keypads. Unfortunately I am using Insteon instead of UPB and both platforms are currently challenged there. Luckily PowerHome is running as reliably as a hardware controller so I use that to run my lighting.

Maybe I can use Homeseer to pull everything together or maybe I will just switch to a CADDX panel so I can keep Stargate as the central platform instead of a subsystem. I just don't know.

 

[BDHall]

I wish the Elk keypads had the ability built-in to function as a thermostat. I had a need for a cooling only thermostat so I wrote a some Elk rules to act on the built-in temperature sensor. I normally display the room temperature on the keypad. I use one function key to turn the air on or off and show the on/off status briefly on the keypad when it is changed. I use two additional function keys to increase or decrease the setpoint one degree per keypress and show the setpoint on the keypad briefly when it is changed. I use an Elk output to control the A/C. I also played around with having HomeSeer speak the changes as they are made. One thing I like about this setup is the large easy to read Elk display. I used this some last season and plan to use it again this year, may need to do some fine tuning and clean up of the logic.

 

[sharby]

Just a quick note regarding Stargate IP/Lite and Aprilaire stats. The JDS verison 4.1 (Y2007K Daylight savings fix) works nice when flashed; however disables Aprilaire stats due to a max-out of memory of the SG panel. I was forced to revert to 4.00 and was dissatisfied with the JDS "quick-fix" methods (kept turning lights on 1 hour earlier as SUNSET). For that reason alone. I moved Aprilaire to ELK for control. Hopefully the engineering team in North Carolina will reply to my emails concerning my suggestions for a rock solid Home automation system.


-=*Sharby*=-

 

[upstatemike]

Reviewing this older thread I was wondering if either of the two issues discussed have seen any progress:

1- Is there any word on being able to adjust Thermostats from an Elk keypad?

2- Is there a way to insert thermostat and temperature probe values into ascii out strings via rules?