ELK WSV Water shutoff Valve wiring

[Dogman]

I have an ELK M1 and just bought a ELK WSV water shutoff valve. I am going to use output 3 on my M1 to drive the valve but in the manual it says that you can also moniter the valve status by connecting the 4th green wire to a zone input. Can I just directly attach the green wire to a + terminal on one of the zone inputs then configure the zone as a Normally open zone since the valve produces a + 12 VDC when it is closed? Or do I need to get a separate relay and just use the status wire of the valve to open and close the relay which is connected across a input zone?

 

[gatchel]

As long as the WSV power is common to the elk I believe that you can just wire it in directly.

 

[dutchyn]

My reading of the WSV instruction sheet doesn't say to plug the green wire into an input zone, but that it acts as a current source (not a contact). So, I don't think it would work -- what I did is given here.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Chris;

When you stated that you used an auxillary power supply for the valve, was this the one from the Elk's main board?

 

[dutchyn]

When you stated that you used an auxillary power supply for the valve, was this the one from the Elk's main board?

I figured that the ELK VAUX terminals are only rated at 1.25 amps, and if the WSV pulls 1 amp, I can't really attach anything else to VAUX. So, I need additional power anyway.

I installed a separate Elk P624 power source (with bonded ground with the Elk M1G). The P624 supplies 1 amp and up to 2.5 amps for short periods if the battery is charged. So I have 0.45 amps of regular load on the P624, and rely on the short-period capability for the relatively uncommon WSV draw of 1 amp.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Hmmm, if the negative of the WSV is tied to the negative of the Elk Aux supply I would have guessed that you could have just run the 12 volt monitor of the WSV directly to an Elk zone without the need for an additional relay.

 

[Dogman]

Hmmm, if the negative of the WSV is tied to the negative of the Elk Aux supply I would have guessed that you could have just run the 12 volt monitor of the WSV directly to an Elk zone without the need for an additional relay.

Yes this is what I was thinking and that is why I was going to use output 3 to drive the valve so that I am using a common power supply. I just really don't want to experiment, however, without some assurance i won't be buying a new M1 due to stupidity.

 

[dutchyn]

Hmmm, if the negative of the WSV is tied to the negative of the Elk Aux supply I would have guessed that you could have just run the 12 volt monitor of the WSV directly to an Elk zone without the need for an additional relay.

Elk input zones are level sensors, comparing the voltage difference between the input zone terminal and the ground terminal. The Elk puts a 12VDC potential between the zone and GND, and checks if current (up to 50mA) will flow. The voltage differential won't change without a circuit through the WSV. If the WSV is putting out 12VDC, then the green wire is definitely not connected to GND -- so this case is OK: the potential difference stays as 12VDC. If the WSV is not putting out 12VDC on the green wire, that doesn't guarantee that the green wire is connected to GND, it could be floating. This second case will lead to no current flowing either, and the potential will stay as 12VDC also. I can check this out, maybe tonight.

I also worry (a little) about multiple voltage sources flowing into a single circuit ... there appears to be a possibility for (1) over-current, or (2) the input zone trying to power the M1G when it shouldn't. If ELK says there's no risk, then I'll regain a relay.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Hmmm, if the negative of the WSV is tied to the negative of the Elk Aux supply I would have guessed that you could have just run the 12 volt monitor of the WSV directly to an Elk zone without the need for an additional relay.

Yes this is what I was thinking and that is why I was going to use output 3 to drive the valve so that I am using a common power supply. I just really don't want to experiment, however, without some assurance i won't be buying a new M1 due to stupidity.

Well, I wasn't saying to use the power supply on the Elk, just that if you did to tie the negative leads of the external power supply to the Elk's negative reference.

Look at what the valve draws and compare it to what you are currently drawing on your system.

 

[Dogman]

Hmmm, if the negative of the WSV is tied to the negative of the Elk Aux supply I would have guessed that you could have just run the 12 volt monitor of the WSV directly to an Elk zone without the need for an additional relay.

Elk input zones are level sensors, comparing the voltage difference between the input zone terminal and the ground terminal. The Elk puts a 12VDC potential between the zone and GND, and checks if current (up to 50mA) will flow. The voltage differential won't change without a circuit through the WSV. If the WSV is putting out 12VDC, then the green wire is definitely not connected to GND -- so this case is OK: the potential difference stays as 12VDC. If the WSV is not putting out 12VDC on the green wire, that doesn't guarantee that the green wire is connected to GND, it could be floating. This second case will lead to no current flowing either, and the potential will stay as 12VDC also. I can check this out, maybe tonight.

I also worry (a little) about multiple voltage sources flowing into a single circuit ... there appears to be a possibility for (1) over-current, or (2) the input zone trying to power the M1G when it shouldn't. If ELK says there's no risk, then I'll regain a relay.

Let me know if you do test this and what your results are

 

[dutchyn]

Let me know if you do test this and what your results are

I will only be testing whether the non-12VDC mode of the status wire means connect-to-ground rather than floating. This will be informative to those who power their WSV from the ELK voltage sources. I will not be testing plugging my status wire into the input zone, for the reasons given previously. I do not anticipate Elk technical support will respond to the obvious questions this thread raises. If I have time, I will try their support forum to prod them into action.

 

[gatchel]

Let me know if you do test this and what your results are

I will only be testing whether the non-12VDC mode of the status wire means connect-to-ground rather than floating. This will be informative to those who power their WSV from the ELK voltage sources. I will not be testing plugging my status wire into the input zone, for the reasons given previously. I do not anticipate Elk technical support will respond to the obvious questions this thread raises. If I have time, I will try their support forum to prod them into action.

Maybe a better place for this post would be the Elk forums.

Maybe Spanky can chime in or the mods can move this post since it is clearly related to Elk components and only elk components...

Elk support here usually very good. If you need an answer yesterday then give them a call.
1-800-797-9355

Edit: Called tech support and they recommended that you isolate the 12vdc output of the WSV with a relay and use the status of the relay to trip the zone due to powering the WSV with a separate power supply.

 

[dutchyn]

Maybe a better place for this post would be the Elk forums.

As I mentioned I might, I have posted to their forum.

Edit: Called tech support and they recommended that you isolate the 12vdc output of the WSV with a relay and use the status of the relay to trip the zone due to powering the WSV with a separate power supply.

Excellent -- it's valuable to have a solution posted here so Elk doesn't have N other people calling with the same question, after days of delay trying to figure it out themselves. Unfortunately, I don't get a relay back :-(

 

[Dogman]

Maybe a better place for this post would be the Elk forums.

As I mentioned I might, I have posted to their forum.

Edit: Called tech support and they recommended that you isolate the 12vdc output of the WSV with a relay and use the status of the relay to trip the zone due to powering the WSV with a separate power supply.

Excellent -- it's valuable to have a solution posted here so Elk doesn't have N other people calling with the same question, after days of delay trying to figure it out themselves. Unfortunately, I don't get a relay back :-(

Yes thank you I guess I should have thought about that as well I just figured there was more traffic here and most likely an answer already here.