firmware update for WebControl8

[gmtech]

Hi CAI,
 
first of all thanks for your beautiful device.
I used it a lot, doing a home alarm, but sadly i need to notify different things to different email addresses, feature supported in (at least) tha last firmware.
I have 3.2.11 firmware with (i think) 2.2.2 hardware revision.
Reading your posts my board is compatible with latest firmware, so please may you share a software that updates firmware?
 
Thanks in advance,
 
Andrew

 

[CAI_Support]

Hi Andrew,
 
Thanks for your post. Yes, our latest firmware does allow each email being sent to a different recipient.
To get firmware updated, please send the board to our office address on our web site, we will promptly update your board.
There is a $10 charge for handling and shipping cost for each board being updated. Please also include your return address in the package so that we can for sure sending it back to you.
 
Once again, thanks so much for using our products.

 

[gmtech]

Thanks for your prompt answer and your kindness.
I did some miracles to buy two of these, here in Italy there's no sellers at all, and i spent more for shipping than devices... :-(
So send them to you it's quite impossibile.
I could build any interface you need, and please consider how i did to have them...
 
Thanks
 
Andrew

 

[gmtech]

P.S. I'm sorry, a little bit OT, but due to all push services available i suggest to admit longer destination mail, because of API addresses (and optional switches).
 
Waiting for your help,
 
Andrew

 

[CAI_Support]

HI Andrew,
 
Sorry for all the trouble. Shipping service in Italy is not very reliable, that is probably EMS cost so high.  Do you know any lower cost reliable mailing service in Italy, so that we could use that to ship to you?

 

[gmtech]

Sadly there's no cheap international shipping service, and if you use the national post service of course time together with results will be unknown. Spend 40$ two times to ship a 35$ item has no sense.
I read many posts where people asks for firmware upgrade software.
I understand that maybe you gain a little bit from each upgrade, but you will gain the same from users that do wrong updates...;-)
And you will offer a very good service...
Your effort will be paid from users happiness and implicit advertising.
And, of course an user can patch bugs he didn't want to buy... ;-P

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

 

[CAI_Support]

Hi Andrew,
 
For WebControl8, there is no way user can perform firmware update, due to hardware limitation. The latest firmware on the WebControl8 is very stable and do not need any future update.  We do not actually make any money by performing firmware update, it is merely a service.  The update process from package coming into our office to unpack, check hardware, making a update image for that board, update, test result, packing and ship back take more than half hour for each board.  Anybody can calculate how much he would get paid for half hour to a hour work.
 
I hope you understand we try our best to help any customer.

 

[gmtech]

I'm sorry i don't want to discuss your internal "factory behaviour", and your gains. I believe it's not because of money.
Here people like me can write code in almost all existing languages, build up interfaces and so on.
"Hardware limitations" are difficult to believe.
Maybe you didn't think your interface would be used from a so high number of users, but do updates possible is, (another time i'm sorry) a little bit polite behaviour.
 
I red 3.2.17 features and WEBSET can solve my problems.
I spent a lot to buy your device, and now i have to pay extra 80$, wait weeks, for a simple upgrade that can be done from header j3 or j7?
 
I understand your worries about your code, but it's like a musician that doesn't sell its music because all the people can play it.
Motherboard bioses? Whatsoever software?
People choose to buy originals not because are cheaper, but because of quality, and support.
 
Of course i won't pay, and i'm sorry, i don't think it's a serious (at least international) politic.
 
Andrew

 

[CAI_Support]

Hi Andrew,
 
Thanks for express your opinion.  We have stated before that on this CPU we are using for WebControl8, there are total 3808 bytes of RAM. If we implement user firmware update feature, half of our features must be removed, for having enough space to do the user firmware update. In another words, even the feature in your boards version 3.02.11 could not be implemented.  The features could only be stayed at 3.02.07 level.
 
I understand you want to have latest feature.  That is great, we want to help you. We can even waive all our charges to help you to do that. But we don't have anyway to tell postal office not charge, I hope you understand.

 

[Automate]

@CAI_Support
 
What kind of programmer do you use in the shop?  Could an end user do it if they had a JTAG programmer?

 

[az1324]

Of course a user could do it but if CAI gives out the code then anyone can copy their product, so that's not fair of the user to expect.  There is not enough brand recognition for someone to know what is the original and what is the clone.  On the other hand, an internet bootloader is < 8k (with encryption) and a serial bootloader would be even smaller.
 
Andrew why don't you sell yours on eBay and then buy a new one with latest version?  Or make your own firmware for the board.  SDK is free.
 

 

[CAI_Support]

It is not just programmer, but also each firmware contains different MAC address that we must generate individually.
In addition, in the past, we had people told us they wanted to have all our firmware and software tools, because they could make our clone cheaper than us. But that was not our purpose when we planned this product.
 
Although WebControl cost is similar to those bare boards products, we are different by having features like those cost 10 times or 100 times more PLC industrial products, in addition, we provides fixes, feature updates, and support.  We try our best to help all customers. 3.02.11 firmware was released a year ago, but we still provide free support. We understand people wanting to have latest added features. So we did provide firmware update services at very reasonable cost.  There is a cost for us keep developing new firmware. But we are willing to waive that cost for this particular customer. We really try hard to make customers happy.  We just don't have anyway to control the shipping cost by UPS, USPS, etc.
 
Currently, WebControl8 reached to its limit for adding more feature; we must remove feature to add any. So we will keep that stable 3.02.17d firmware for general release, any future firmware development is for special purpose with some other feature removed.  This probably eliminates the need for having firmware update.

 

[az1324]

You can store MAC in EEPROM or in bootloader space.  You are using 128K version chip?  You should have a little space for bootloader.  Just discussing technical feasibility.  You already do the community a great service with lots of features and a low price, so no disappointment implied.  Actually special purpose firmware is the perfect place for user upgradeable firmware so you can ship one configuration and they can pick and choose.

 

[CAI_Support]

We appreciate your input. It is not EEPROM space to store the code, it is RAM totally running out.  There are only 3808 bytes RAM, we don't have even a byte left.  We removed serial port long time ago. TCPIP took close 1K RAM. When we implementing the 3.02.16 features, we started by reducing email queue size, in 3.02.17, we also removed four IP addresses from allowed hosts, we manually massaged ram allocation to fit things in. 
 
To implement the bootloader and encryption, it will need at least 256 bytes RAM that we don't have.  It will need to have a buffer to store reading from the network, decrypt it into another buffer. then write to EEPROM a page at a time.  That EEPROM page size is 256 bytes. Besides, now we squeezed all those code in, we don't want to take out features for this.  Thanks for your helpful suggestion.

 

[rossw]

While we're just talking "hypothetically" - and assuming there's enough EEPROM to store the code, you'd only need a tiny stub in memory. Once a particular command is received OTW (Over-The-Wire), you could branch to the "updater". The RAM in use would be then entirely free for the updating process. As you said already 1K for TCP/IP, 256 bytes for working buffer, same again for decoded data. Some scratch, store for the existing MAC address, etc, etc... still comes in comfortably within the code space available.
 
Once the "firmware" portion is re-written, force a reset to re-initialize all the variables and let the code run...