First Experience with UPB

tyroiii

Member
I thought I'd share my first experience into home automation and UPB testing. I recently moved into a new apartment and started to research some home automation, particularly lights and security. I decided to experiment with lights first, as it is a bit cheaper and I didn't need to get an dedicated controller.

For the lights, I was on the fence between Insteon and UPB. I finally decided on UPB because it seemed more matured, had more products (particularly in-line module) and had a working interface with a computer (UPStart).

My test:
I purchased a sampling of devices to experiment with before taking a deeper plunge. I will eventually need about 20 devices to control the lighting in my apartment. The devices that were:
1) HAI PIM - for PC connectivity and configuration
2) HAI Dimmer - To test quality of HAI switches versus SA switches
3) SA Dimmer - To test quality and for the dual rocker function
4) SA Plug In Module - To test circuit and connection. Primarily, I wanted to find out whether or not I need to install an phase coupler.

Parts Feedback:
1) HAI PIM/UPStart - Looks cheap, but it works fine. Forgot to order the serial pug, so I needed to build my own wire (didn't want to wait couple of days). Once I figured out UpStart and finally read the manual, it is fairly easy to use. The link of the devices took me some time as it wasn't very obvious that you needed to check the controllers on the SA switch before you can control the link devices.

2) HAI Dimmer - I installed it to control some track lights that was on electronic transformers.
Pros - Construction - I like the construction of the switch better than the SA switch. If feels sturdy, there is no issues with the air gap, and unit can be grounded when connecting to a metal J-box without connecting the ground wire. It is also more shallow than the SA switch, which makes installation easier.
Price - The switch is also cheaper than the SA switch.
Package - Easy instruction and comes with connectors.
Cons - Dimmer -noticable buzz from the switch when the lights are dimmed.
Flexibility - Only available in single rocker mode with less colors.

3) SA Dimmer - I didn't test the dimming capabilities on the track lights, will do so tonight. I used it primarily as a controller.
Pros - Flexibility - Don't need to add/change swithces when you need additional controller functions. Just change the plates.
Cons - Construction -
Air Gap - I do not like the air gap and led sharing the same piece of plastic. It looks like it can break off any time and air gap can engage accidentally.
Ground Wire - The unit is painted black, which means the ground wire is welded to an exposed section on the unit. I can see this falling off if you move the unit around quite alot. Ground wire is also unsheathed, which means you need to be a bit more careful around the placement in the J-Box.
Rockers - The dual rocker was stuck the first time around and the placement is too close to each other. The the top rocker off will accidentally make you tap the bottom rocker on.

4) SA Plug In - This works as expected. It would have been nice if the connection is in the same plane as the plug, but that's a perference thing. I don't intend to really use any of these, as I'll use either the inline module or receptacles.


My overall opinion, granted very short lived so far, is that it quite reliable (good signal strength and very little noise) and very easy to configure. The buzz on the switches when commands are send are quite loud (I can hear it from another room) and will take some getting use to. It would definitely shock new users. Some training may be involved for new users also, it's not entirely intuititive, but I think that's a function of all home lighting automation. I will definitely purchase more units to complete my apartment.

[edit by electron: fixed title]
 
I noticed you prefer the HAI switches. I haven't used them yet, but maybe I should try. How about astetics - does the color LED look good? (isn't it blue instead of green?) Any difference from a usability or configuration perspective? (I assume it still has a brief delay between switch on and load changing?)

Good feedback
 
bfisher said:
I noticed you prefer the HAI switches. I haven't used them yet, but maybe I should try. How about astetics - does the color LED look good? (isn't it blue instead of green?) Any difference from a usability or configuration perspective? (I assume it still has a brief delay between switch on and load changing?)

Good feedback
Yes, I do prefer the HAI switches for replacements of standard switches. For multi-controllers, I like SA switches for their flexibility. I am planning on trying the HAI 8 button controller, but with the SA switch, I can just change the face plate if I want to add a new function.

Astetically, I like the HAI switches better, the plastics feels firms and smooth.

I noticed a brief delay, fraction of a second, but it doesn't bother me. I actually prefer it because it ramps up. I have not tried it with the dimmer function turned off, but I will soon on my fixtures with flourescent bulbs.
 
I will refrain from more detailed comments here but just wanted to say I am working on a complete review of UPB switches - comparing all major brands HAI, SAI and PCS. Web Mountains are just rebranded. The review will also include pictures. Hopefully will have it complete this week. It will contain all facts about colors, etc as well as opinion.

Edit: Just wanted to add that I guess the UPB buzz is a highly personal type of thing. FWIW, I only hear it clearly within a few feet of the switch, barely noticeable at all at 'normal' operating distance, and no way at all I hear it in a different room. And I do have good hearing :angry: . I'll have to ask a guest if they hear it.
 
elcano said:
Has anybody tried other UPB brands, like Web Mountain?
Web Mountain actually re-packages SAI products. Same here about the buzz. I can only hear my SAI switches buzz when I'm right next to them. Perhaps the HAI switches are louder?
 
tyroiii said:
Astetically, I like the HAI switches better, the plastics feels firms and smooth.

I noticed a brief delay, fraction of a second, but it doesn't bother me. I actually prefer it because it ramps up. I have not tried it with the dimmer function turned off, but I will soon on my fixtures with flourescent bulbs.
Just wait till you use them with fluroescent lights and have the switches set to 'Snap!' on/off mode. Then you'll notice the delay.

BTW: HAI make relay switches. If you're using HAI, then I'd recommend using the relay versions for the fluroescent lights. I've had a HAI dimmer (in Snap! mode) commit suicide an with instant-on electronic ballast. Maybe it was just a dud unit, but it only lasted about 10 on/off cycles before it died. AutomatedOutlet have them.
 
HAI actually has 4 switch models, a 600W dimming and non-dimming, a 1000W dimming and non-dimming. And a straight 15A relay. IMHO, HAI made this more complicated then it needs to be unless there is some electrical reason I don't know about. They further confuse you by saying their non-dimming switch can be set to dimming mode - HUH?

You may change the function of this non-dimming switch to be dimming (or back to non-dimming) using the HAI UPBâ„¢ UPStart configuration software after the switch has been installed.
From the HAI site on their non-dimmer...
They say just the opposite on their dimmer model.

I like SAI - 1 switch that can handle up to 900-1000W and either dim or not dim. There are situations where you may move switches around and it is nice to have them multipurpose instead of being locked down to having relays here or there. Now if the relays were A LOT less expensive then maybe this would make sense. I think HAI's dedicated 15A relay is for heavier duty loads for maybe control of an outlet, etc where you don't know what will be on it.

Also, I think yours was just a dud, or a problem with HAI. I have several SAI switches controlling instant on flourescents for a while with no problems.
 
If I had to guess (and that's what I'm doing), I'd say that they are just preconfiguring the devices to be either snap or ramp. Any difference in price?

I've got a Lightolier non-dimming switch controlling 300W worth of flourescents in the garage. I'm all but certain that it doesn't have a relay - if it does, it's the quietest one the planet. Personally I think it's the same as their dimmer module just with different firmware.

Anyway, I've had it for almost 4 years and have never had any problems with it. One difference is that the lights have regular ballasts (that I keep meaning to replace). But I would think they would throw nastier surges than electronic ones.

Jerry
 
The HAI non-dimming switches are exactly the same as their dimming switches. I actually ordered a non-dimming version. I'm assuming with UPStart, you can make them snap on. But a relay is much simplier and probably more reliable for flourescent fixtures or appliances.
 
But their relay switch is $10 more than their 600W dimmer. Why would anyone spend MORE money for less capability if the regular switches are perfectly capable of handling it? I see the relay only when there is no choice like controlling an outlet, or other type of load the regular switch can't handle. I still think their marketing is dumb. It is very easy to set the switch to dim/non-dim/snap, etc. in UPStart.
 
The pricing is unfortunate, but thats true for all of the UPB stuff, not just the HAI relay switches.

But, there are real reasons for using it.
1) 15 amps is roughly 1800 watts. Try that with a triac based dimmer - the heat buildup will be brutal. You don't get heat buildup anywhere near the same degree with a relay version. If you have a dimmer in a multi-gang box, you may need to use a relay device to avoid having to derate other dimmers load capacity to solve heating problems.
2) when your instant-start electronic fluroescent ballasts kill the triac in the dimmer version. Mine died after 10-15 on/off cycles. I dont know if it was the ballast or a defective switch. But a datapoint: the ballast is the same brand/model that kills the load sensor circuit in appliancelincV2's.

I actually don't like the feel of the HAI switches anyway. I like the look better, just not the feel. To me they feel cheap and flimsy. That's all subjective anyway.

HAI mention that their dimming and non-dimming switches are identical, they are just programmed with different defaults. UPStart can change them from one to the other, but I suspect a factory reset will restore them to dimming/non-dimming mode respectively.
 
BTW: it was a combination of those that tipped me over the edge to insteon for here. The SAI switch bodies dont fit in my houses's boxes, so they're out. I dont like the feel of the HAI rocker action, and then when it died with the fluroescent light, my confidence in them went down the toilet. Plus there is the buzz and the delayed action in responding to the rocker switch. My wife HATED the delay, and I didn't like it either. Also, the over-the-wire protocol is glacially slow (compared to insteon), and we now have signal problems. A passive phase coupler wasn't cutting it - we were having cross phase problems regularly. Unfortunately, there is no active repeater available for residential use.

Insteon is far from perfect either. While I love the look/feel of the switches, and love the response time and quiet signalling system, Smarthome have really botched the launch IMHO. They've rushed buggy products to the market, and the computer interface is definately a second class citizen in the Insteon world. It is really poor compared to the excellent support UPB gives for for computer control.

Accessing the UPB network via a PIM is really nice and simple. There are no gotchas with the protocol, unlike with Insteon's half-baked abomination. The Insteon equivalent of a PIM censors the on-the-wire traffic to try and provide the illusion of security. The Insteon RF repeaters are promiscuous and have no access control. If you have several neighbors in good RF range, you'll bridge all your houses together. Plus, having 50+ electrical devices all simulcasting to push a signal makes it really strong and it leaks right out the breaker box and into the neighborhood. Any other houses in range will likely repeat it too. Plus there are no access controls on the switches, and it takes just hours to scan all the existing Insteon devlice ID's.. you can own your neighbors in a matter of hours and there is nothing they can do about it. There are no Insteon breaker box filters, no RF access controls.. nothing!

Plus, the smarthome folks have gone into utter denial mode on the whole issue. They won't even respond on the developer forum about these (or many other) problems anymore. Developer support appears all but dead.

Unfortunately, we primarily use the switches locally at the wall. So look/feel/response time (ie: huge WAF factors) trumped the programming interface and fake security. (Not that UPB's security is much better)
 
You mention UPB security isn't much better... I assume you are referring to the fact that you program in a Network name and that's it for security? If someone can get on your UPB network (neighbors house, etc) and guess the name right - they have access to your system... is that what you are refering to?
 
bfisher said:
You mention UPB security isn't much better... I assume you are referring to the fact that you program in a Network name and that's it for security? If someone can get on your UPB network (neighbors house, etc) and guess the name right - they have access to your system... is that what you are refering to?
Do you even have to guess the network name, or can you just read the network ID off of the powerline and then immediately start sending commands?
 
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