Four state zone on Elk for Automation

[tmbrown97]

Well, this recent thread got me thinking: http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?showtopic=10935

I liked the idea of using the resistor to get both buttons out of one zone. So, I'm thinking of a way to do something similar but trying to squeeze 3 button presses out of a single zone using 4-state wiring. If anyone has any experience on this, let me know what you think...

I have a 3-Channel RF Remote w/receiver that matches my car alarm (It comes with 2 remotes, plus I can program up to 3 channels off my car alarm remote to it as well) - I currently use 2 of the 3 channels to control my garage doors. I've always used this so my car alarm remotes can open the garage without carrying a remote in the car - and so I always have a remote on me. It has an internal relay plus 2 voltage outputs, so I've always thrown another automotive relay on the second channel for the second garage door, and left the 3rd channel unused.

I figured I could take the 3rd zone and feed it into the elk quite easily and things would work as they do now - but I got to thinking - since I also want the elk hooked into the garage doors, if I send all three channels into the elk rather than direct control of the garage door, I can also use that information for other purposes - or block it if the panel is in vacation mode, etc, and still get the 3rd channel - all without using anything more than a few extra zones.

So, to do this, I'm guessing I'd wire 2 of the 3 zones on NC, one on NO, and basically follow the diagram in the book? I guess what I'm not sure about yet though is if I can use each of these to trigger different automation events without worrying about alarm conditions, etc. The book talks about tamper states, etc - does that matter? Also - can this 4-state zone be done off a keypad zone or does it have to be off the board (and can it be off an expander, etc)?

I'm sure I'll get more familiar in coming days - I just had an installer run all my wires today for me, so I'm onto the hookup part now - and waiting for a few more last-minute pieces to come in.

 

[Lagerhead]

Todd, what are your priorities here? Are you looking to add functionality, or to conserve zones, or something else?

If you want to insert the Elk between your receiver and the garage door controls, seems you will need one more relay on your receiver (from the channel 3 voltage output), and you will need relay outputs on the Elk connected to the garage doors.

If you want direct RF control of the garage doors, but want the Elk simply to "take note" of your garage-controlling button presses, this can be done readily if you substitute double-pole relays at the receiver, one pole of each to the garage door and the other to the Elk.

If you want combinations of keypresses to control a variety of functions, this can be programmed in the Elk with some ingenuity.

If you want economy of zones (fewest zones per function), that design would follow secondarily from what you want to accomplish.

First thing, you should think-through very clearly and precisely how you want your keypresses to work. (For instance, there are six ways to press three keys in pairs, so you could in principle control six functions.) Check your design to make sure there are no inconsistencies. Consider the possibility of a missed keypress and the risk and consequences (if any). Then you can tackle the design.

Dave

 

[Lagerhead]

Since the topic is "four-state zones" there is one application I have that is true four-state on one zone.

It is a selector switch to control my heating and cooling settings.

But I am not actually using the Elk 4-state zone configuration on page 9 of the Installation manual, I am instead using "Whenever every 5 seconds" to inspect the voltage level. This is because (1) I do not see where 4-state is available on M1 non-alarm zones, and (2) anyway I want to be able to pass through selection points without triggering the intermediate actions (in other words, I want to get from any selection to any other selection and have only the final selection recognized).

 

[tmbrown97]

Nice Catch on the Voltage application - I was reading some more last night and saw that the 4-state thing was only for security zones basically, not for non-alarm zones... That's a great workaround. I'd need some sort of instant trigger for my application since it's only a momentary press, but I'm sure that's a simple modification to the rules...

As far as everything else goes, I think I know how to wire the garage door RF receiver to accomplish getting the 4 states into the system. BTW - the only real reason for trying to accomplish all these in one is partially to save zones, but more importantly, to save wiring - I really only left 1 pair to the garage for inputs. I really only need the 3rd channel off the receiver into that, but I just thought it'd be fun to see what can be pulled off with this thing.

I'll also already have 16 relay outputs in the garage - since I have a 10-zone sprinkler system, I had to put in the 8/8 output expander with the attached 8-relay board - and I still will have 4 output zones left on this even after the sprinklers and garage doors...

Thx for the info - back to wiring my zones.

 

[Lagerhead]

-->QUOTE(Todd B @ Aug 24 2008, 07:44 PM) [post="95191"][/post]
I'd need some sort of instant trigger for my application since it's only a momentary press[/quote]

For "instant" zone triggering with three tirgger states, I think you're going to need two zones and at least three wires. Although there may be a simple passive diode-based solution using one pair.

You might try to use the Elk bulit-in four-state solution on one pair and one zone by placing the zone in an unused Area that is never armed and cannot be armed. This way, you can have immediate triggering native to the zone and get around the alarm-type definition requirement. Would need two rules to differentiate the two alarm states based on zone voltage. Don't know myself whether this would work or might cause other problems; haven't had to do this. So far.