Gas Fireplace

Luvien

Member
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to control my fireplace (on/off) from my PC. I plan to buy the Omni Pro and all my house is with UPB.

The fireplace don't need any current to start. It's hard to explain, but you just have to put the 2 wires together and it's lighting up. The builder ran a simple on/off switch to the fireplace. Because I'm not using any current, how can I link this with my Omni ? should I homerun it to a zone in the Omni and I only activate a zone to start the fireplace?

Thanks!

LJ
 
I have same fireplace setup. Builder installed a standard 110V light switch to control the fireplace but the switch is only used to create an open or closed circuit for the fireplace. Does not provide any power. In this case, all you need to do is use the Omni to control a relay in the circuit. If you do not want to remove the existing switch, switch it to on (closed) and let the relay in your circult provide the open/closed control. You cannot replace the wall switch with a UPB switch because you are not trying to control a 110V load and you do not want to tie it into your high voltage wire. IN my case, there is no high voltage wire to the switch at all. If you wanted to do it with UPB control, you would need to use a UPB controlled relay. That can be done with a Simply Automated I/O module (UMI-32-W). Looks like a wall wart so you would need to work that into your decor.
However, I do not have my fireplace controlled with my Omni Pro II. I did not want some system failure to turn my fireplace on without my awareness in case something flameable might be close to the fire place.
 
Hello everyone,

I'm trying to control my fireplace (on/off) from my PC. I plan to buy the Omni Pro and all my house is with UPB.

The fireplace don't need any current to start. It's hard to explain, but you just have to put the 2 wires together and it's lighting up. The builder ran a simple on/off switch to the fireplace. Because I'm not using any current, how can I link this with my Omni ? should I homerun it to a zone in the Omni and I only activate a zone to start the fireplace?

Thanks!

LJ

Fireplaces are a bit different. What you want to do is use a HAI relay output to turn on a 12V output and run that to the fireplace, the get a 12V relay and use the contacts to connect to the fireplace. DON'T run long wires from the fireplace and expect the HAI relay to control it directly. Not safe.
 
Fireplaces are a bit different. What you want to do is use a HAI relay output to turn on a 12V output and run that to the fireplace, the get a 12V relay and use the contacts to connect to the fireplace. DON'T run long wires from the fireplace and expect the HAI relay to control it directly. Not safe.

I don't understand this. Downstairs, my panel is 3 wire-feet from the wall switch, and the wall switch is 10 wire-feet from the fireplace. Upstairs, the electricians ran the wire a good 15' to an identical switch and fireplace. But you claim I cannot have the 12V relay at the panel. Should it be at the switch or the fireplace? If it's in the fireplace, where do I get a 230 degree-rated relay: everything in there must be high-temperature rated; even the romex.

Chris D.
 
I'd like to know why this isn't safe, as well. As it turns out, my fireplace is connected to a relay board at my HAI panel location (approx. 25' from the fireplace) and it's worked well for three years but, if there is a life safety reason to move the relay at the FP, then I will. The other thing that I'd mention is that I NEVER automate the fireplace to turn on, only off. In other words, to turn it on, you must control it through a touch screen. It is programmed to never turn on by itself. I do have a couple of routines that will ensure that off is automated (bedtime, arm away, etc.)
 
I'm with you Anthony. Why isn't it safe to use a relay back at your controller. I have mine hooked up to my Elk via an Elk M1RB. I ran 18/2 to the fireplace, and have the same setup; just connect the two wires, and it turns on. I too do not have any rules to turn it on automatically, just a button on the touchscreen.
 
Fireplaces are a bit different. What you want to do is use a HAI relay output to turn on a 12V output and run that to the fireplace, the get a 12V relay and use the contacts to connect to the fireplace. DON'T run long wires from the fireplace and expect the HAI relay to control it directly. Not safe.

I don't understand this. Downstairs, my panel is 3 wire-feet from the wall switch, and the wall switch is 10 wire-feet from the fireplace. Upstairs, the electricians ran the wire a good 15' to an identical switch and fireplace. But you claim I cannot have the 12V relay at the panel. Should it be at the switch or the fireplace? If it's in the fireplace, where do I get a 230 degree-rated relay: everything in there must be high-temperature rated; even the romex.

Chris D.

Your fireplace uses a thermocouple to generate a really small amount of electricity which your fireplace uses to control the fireplace. That is why it has a switch, but yet no electrical power. The normal solution you'd think you could use would be to tap the two wires from the switch (and I'm guessing its in the wall next to the fireplace) and run that to a set of contacts on the HAI panel. BUT you don't want the low-voltage fireplace wires to run a long distance, rather, you want the relay contacts controlling the fireplace to be as close to the switch as possible. In the box with the switch is ideal, but not in the fireplace, as you would need a high-temp relay, as you say.

So, you know you home's layout better than us, but one solution, if you panel is a ways from the fireplace switch is to put the relay in the box with the fireplace switch. Note that the fireplace switch is not 120V, so you can mix a low voltage relay and a fireplace switch in the same box and not violate codes.

So you want to use an HAI output to control a relay in your panel, and have the relay contacts on that relay control a second relay in or very near the fireplace switch. This seems like a bit of overkill, but it isn't. First, the HAI outputs are susceptible to static and noise problems, so you always want the outputs to control relays in the panel, and not run long distances outside the panel. On the other end, the fireplace switch shouldn't be extended long distances for the same reason. Besides, relays are cheap. Radio Shack or Fry's Electronics carries them.

If you haven't already, Install HAI's 4 or 8 bank of relays in the panel and wire each HAI output to each relay. In the fireplace switch you want to install a relay like this: Radio Shack Reed Relay These are great because they are cheap, reliable and small. Last, use 12V from the panel, switched by a panel relay, to control the reed relay in the fireplace switch.

You could also use the SAUMI32W (Simply Automated I/O box) which contains a relay, to also control the fireplace, but while UPB is reliable, I myself still wouldn't trust it to control a fireplace, but that's your call. I actually control two pool pumps with this I/O module (and a big relay) and it works great. I'd use an HAI output if I could, but this distance is too great.
 
Wouldnt the safety issue arise if the relay gets stuck(goes bad) and it keeps the fireplace on when you are trying to turn it off?
 
Your fireplace uses a thermocouple to generate a really small amount of electricity which your fireplace uses to control the fireplace. That is why it has a switch, but yet no electrical power.

I feel much better now -- my fireplaces have the Nexen controller, and run off line current or a battery pack (with a relay to switch between them in the case of power failure). No thermocouple. In fact, I have two switches, one that turns on/off the pilot light, and another for the main burner; wired according to the standard Heat'N'Glo cold-weather kit.

I also have a 12VDC->3VDC transformer so I can run the fireplaces off the HA battery during a power failure. Heat'N'Glo has a cabin kit that provides both of these functions. I also splurged ($5) for a temperature sensor wired to the Elk panel.

Chris D.
 
Wouldnt the safety issue arise if the relay gets stuck(goes bad) and it keeps the fireplace on when you are trying to turn it off?

My fireplace is the same - and I considered automating it but the fear of the thing coming on accidentally is to much for my old ticker... Someone should document a nice method of failsafe maybe?
 
Wouldnt the safety issue arise if the relay gets stuck(goes bad) and it keeps the fireplace on when you are trying to turn it off?

My fireplace is the same - and I considered automating it but the fear of the thing coming on accidentally is to much for my old ticker... Someone should document a nice method of failsafe maybe?

I think your pretty safe with reed relays. The current so low, you don't have to worry about the only failure mode, welded together contacts from too much current. If a wire breaks, you just get no flame. I think there is a 100 times greater chance that the valve will fail in the fireplace, and that can occur without any automation.
 
I'm with you Anthony. Why isn't it safe to use a relay back at your controller. I have mine hooked up to my Elk via an Elk M1RB. I ran 18/2 to the fireplace, and have the same setup; just connect the two wires, and it turns on. I too do not have any rules to turn it on automatically, just a button on the touchscreen.

Depends on the distance. The problem is the control voltage is so low that it can pick up noise easy. Long wires act as an antenna. So you placed a cell phone, blender, vacuum, near the wire and ran them to make sure the fireplace didn't light? It could. I'd do a bunch of testing if it was me. It might not be a problem or it may be.
 
The control for the fireplace from the thermocouple, according to the instructions, uses "microvoltage". Not sure exactly what that means other than not very much.

Heat 'n glo also makes remote controls for their fireplaces, would it be better to buy that kit and control it with IR?
 
The control for the fireplace from the thermocouple, according to the instructions, uses "microvoltage". Not sure exactly what that means other than not very much.

Heat 'n glo also makes remote controls for their fireplaces, would it be better to buy that kit and control it with IR?

They do this little trick where the heat from the pilot light flame generates a small voltage that can control the rest of the fireplace. So no external power is required. Gas hot water heaters work the same way. The "microvoltage" makes it very susceptible to noise, thus not smart to extend the switch wires long distances. Use a relay next to the switch.

You could use IR control, and that would work too.
 
There should be no problem running the remote relay, it's no different than running your fireplace to a thermostat or remote wall switch which as a contractor I do quite frequently without any problems. If your worried about interference use a two wire smoke detector wire, it's shielded to prevent interference. I use the HAI 8 relay board in my structured wiring enclosure for my fireplace automation and one of the fireplaces is about 150 feet from the controller - No Problems. the wires should connect to the TR and TH connections on your gas valve just as a switch or t-stat would.
 
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