Glass Break Sensor - Honeywell or Elk?

SteveInNorCal

Active Member
Good morning...Which wireless glass breaks should I buy? Honeywell-5853 or Elk-6040?
 
Background
 
Elk M1 Gold. Full wired perimeter coverage. Three Bosch Blue Line Gen 2 motion sensors covering LR, DR and main hall (additional coverage for entry doors). Everything has been running great for almost a year now and the only false alarms have been user error as we get used to the system.
 
I'm thinking about adding wireless glass break sensors. I would prefer wired sensors, but there's no room left for wired (panel can is completely full, 16 Elk zones used, 16 XIN zones used, Panduit wire trays almost full).
 
I already have an existing Elk M1XRFTW 2-way wireless transceiver installed for my key fob and there are plenty of wireless zone available. The battery life on wireless glass breaks is 5 - 10 years, so wireless seems to be a reasonable approach for these additional sensors.
 
The GB will be in rooms where the windows are covered with curtains, drapes, or wood shutters so I'm uncertain about performance.
 
Windows are regular glass, double-pane, low-e, not gas filled.
 
Honeywell 5853. $55 on Amazon. Four sensitivity settings (Max, Medium, Low and Lowest) to reduce false alarms. Can use my existing FG-701 Tester. Would need to install an Elk-M1XRF2H wireless receiver ($100). Honeywell is well-known for controls and high quality detection. The 5853 uses a Honeywell ASIC that they claim processes sound faster and more accurately to minimize false alarms. It will not trigger an alarm unless it detects two events in sequence: the low-frequency “flex” signal caused by glass flexure upon impact followed by the audible sound of shattering glass within specific frequency ranges. The alarm triggers only if these two events are perceived in sequence within an appropriate time frame. Detection range - 25' from window; no minimum. LEDs indicate test mode, alarms and trouble conditions. Claims 10 year battery life. Originally Ademco.
 
Elk 6040. $110 on Amazon. Apparently does not have any sensitivity settings. Uses the existing XRFTW transceiver. Elk claims two-way enables ACK from the transceiver to GB which reduces transmissions from the GB sensor and extends battery life. Detection range - 20' from window; 4' minimum. Claims 5 year battery life. Uses spread spectrum for RF reliability. Uses standard Elk enrollment of sensor using the keypad or RP software. Alarm detection LED visible through cover; RF status LED hidden behind cover. Elk recommends the GE Shatterpro UTC 5709C "or equivalent" tester/simulator. Can I use my Honeywell FG-701?
 
Units are about the same size and WAF, but the Elk is 50% thicker:
Honeywell: 4.95" H x 3.09" W x 1.10" D
Elk:       4.25" W x 3.13" H x 1.70" D
 
Help! Should I add the GB sensors? Should I go with Elk or Honeywell? How serious is the window covering problem?
 
Thanks to you gurus in advance!
Steve
 
"Should I add the GB sensors?"
 
Depends.  Do you want your alarm to trigger when the bad guys break the glass, or after they're inside the house and get picked up by the motion detectors?
 
I haven't read much in the way of opinions about the Elk 6040.  It looks suspiciously like a GE/Interlogix Shatterpro NX-488.  The shape and dimensions of the cases are identical, and several of the images in the Elk instruction sheet are right out of the Shatterpro instructions.  Couple that with the fact that they recommend the 5709C tester, and that makes me think that it's the same glass break detector as the NX-488 with an Elk 2-way wireless back-end.
 
Visonic took this same approach with their MCT-501. It's a Shatterpro detector module with a Visonic wireless transmitter, in the same enclosure that the NX-488 uses.  So Elk would not be breaking any new ground in doing this. I suppose that it's possible that Elk simply reused GE's enclosure for their own, completely new detector design, but it's hard for me to believe that's what they did.
 
Assuming the it is the NX-488 design, the Shatterpro isn't the best glass break detector out there.   So I'd be more inclined to go with the Honeywell 5853.  And at less than half the price of the 6040, it sure makes them attractive.
 
On my system, I use Visonic GlassTech wired glass breaks, which uses a different detector design from the MCT-501 detector.  Are you really determined to go wireless?  I understand that you don't have any more wired zones, but is adding an M1XIN to provide more wired zones out of the question?
 
I suspect your FG-701 tester will work for testing the Elk 6040s, as I've read that it works with the NX-488s.
 
My biggest concern would be the drapes and the shutters on the windows.  That will definitely affect the capability of any glass break detector.
 
RAL said:
I haven't read much in the way of opinions about the Elk 6040.  It looks suspiciously like a GE/Interlogix Shatterpro NX-488.  The shape and dimensions of the cases are identical, and several of the images in the Elk instruction sheet are right out of the Shatterpro instructions.  Couple that with the fact that they recommend the 5709C tester, and that makes me think that it's the same glass break detector as the NX-488 with an Elk 2-way wireless back-end.  I suppose that it's possible that Elk simply reused GE's enclosure for their own, completely new detector design, but it's hard for me to believe that's what they did.
 
Assuming the it is a NX-488 design, the Shatterpro isn't the best glass break detector out there.   So I'd be more inclined to go with the Honeywell 5853.  And at less than half the price of the 6040, it sure makes them attractive.
 
On my system, I use Visonic wired glass breaks.  Are you really determined to go wireless?  I understand that you don't have any more wired zones, but is adding an M1XIN to provide more wired zones out of the question?
 
I suspect your FG-701 tester will work for testing the Elk 6040s, as I've read that it works with the NX-488s.
 
My biggest concern would be the drapes and the shutters on the windows.  That will definitely affect the capability of any glass break detector.
 
Thanks, RAL. I could add another XIN, but I would have to piggy-back it on top of the existing XIN using nylon stand-offs. I could mount it maybe 1-1/2 to 2 inches above the existing XIN. That makes accessing the lower XIN problematic.
 
I didn't mount any of the cards in the can perpendicular to the base plane -- they are all lying flat on the back of the can to maximize access and simplify wiring. I didn't care much for the brackets provided by Elk to mount cards perpendicular to the base plane.
 
I might have seven GB - one each in the BR, one in LR, one in DR, and one in front hall by front door (it has glass panes and there are sidelights left and right of the door.
 
Any particular reason you don't like wireless? Myself, I prefer the "solidity" of real wire connections, so the only wireless connection so far is the key fob. Everything else is hard-wired.
 
The curtains, drapes and shutters are my biggest concern, too. I'm not sure GB are worth the expense and trouble if their detection capability is severely compromised. I suppose I could purchase one GB and test it with the GB Tester situated between the window and the window covering. I test the existing Honeywell in the garage by first carefully rapping the glass, then using the Tester.
 
Steve
 
SteveInNorCal said:
Any particular reason you don't like wireless? Myself, I prefer the "solidity" of real wire connections, so the only wireless connection so far is the key fob. Everything else is hard-wired.

 
The curtains, drapes and shutters are my biggest concern, too. I'm not sure GB are worth the expense and trouble if their detection capability is severely compromised. I suppose I could purchase one GB and test it with the GB Tester situated between the window and the window covering. I test the existing Honeywell in the garage by first carefully rapping the glass, then using the Tester.
 
 
I'm not opposed to wireless in general, and do use a M1XRFTW with 6021 window contacts.  Just thinking that if you went with wired glass break detectors, that gives you more options to choose from.  I readily admit that in some cases wireless is the best/only choice.
 
I mounted my XINs vertically.  I didn't want to give up the room in the can that mounting them flat would require.  That does make accessing the screws for the terminals more difficult though.  But I live with that tradeoff.
 
I agree with trying out one detector first to see how the drapes affect things.  Maybe even borrow your existing glass break from the garage and run a temporary wire (not inside the walls) just to make the test and try different mounting locations.
 
RAL said:
I'm not opposed to wireless in general, and do use a M1XRFTW with 6021 window contacts.  Just thinking that if you went with wired glass break detectors, that gives you more options to choose from.  I readily admit that in some cases wireless is the best/only choice.
 
I mounted my XINs vertically.  I didn't want to give up the room in the can that mounting them flat would require.  That does make accessing the screws for the terminals more difficult though.  But I live with that tradeoff.
 
I agree with trying out one detector first to see how the drapes affect things.  Maybe even borrow your existing glass break from the garage and run a temporary wire (not inside the walls) just to make the test and try different mounting locations.
I tried mounting the XIN vertically, but the terminal screw access was so bad that I decided to go flat. My can is chock full with a very careful mechanical layout. I was concerned when I laid it all out that I would eventually need another XIN. I guess if I stack two of them, the lower card terminal screw access is about the same difficulty as if they were mounted vertically. 
 
Elk should build units that can be mounted vertically with the terminal screws accessible from the edge of the card. Their mechanical design for vertical mounting is just silly.
 
Elk's units ARE shatterpro's that have the transmitter integrated. Unfortunately many non-OEM type manufacturers go this way (essentially a universal unit with transmitter tossed in, some are better at this than others).
 
Like RAL, and in general, I don't like laying the boards flat in the can. IMHO, it's really not a huge deal to unplug the blocks and make the connections and put back as-is. Then again, I do it all the time with access control products. In honesty, the layout and mounting method, barring cable management, is very smart compared to HAI's, for example.
 
SteveInNorCal said:
I didn't mount any of the cards in the can perpendicular to the base plane -- they are all lying flat on the back of the can to maximize access and simplify wiring. I didn't care much for the brackets provided by Elk to mount cards perpendicular to the base plane.
 
If you leave a little bit of slack in the cables, you can slide the cards out about an inch and easily make connections.  Not a big deal.
 
RAL said:
I haven't read much in the way of opinions about the Elk 6040.  It looks suspiciously like a GE/Interlogix Shatterpro NX-488.  The shape and dimensions of the cases are identical, and several of the images in the Elk instruction sheet are right out of the Shatterpro instructions.
 
I just noticed in the Elk instruction sheet that the photograph of the unit has "Sentrol" clearly printed on the plastic cover right below the LED. There has been so much consolidation in the security business, I've lost track of who is independent, who's been acquired, who's been sold off, etc. Is Sentrol owned by Interlogix? Interlogix is owned by United Technologies (UTC), isn't it?
 
SteveInNorCal said:
I just noticed in the Elk instruction sheet that the photograph of the unit has "Sentrol" clearly printed on the plastic cover right below the LED. There has been so much consolidation in the security business, I've lost track of who is independent, who's been acquired, who's been sold off, etc. Is Sentrol owned by Interlogix? Interlogix is owned by United Technologies (UTC), isn't it?
 
 
Good catch - I hadn't noticed the Sentrol label there.
 
If I have my history right, both Sentrol and Interlogix were part of GE Security.  GE sold off the security business in 2010 to UTC.
 
SteveInNorCal said:
Good morning...Which wireless glass breaks should I buy? Honeywell-5853 or Elk-6040?
 
Background
 
Elk M1 Gold. Full wired perimeter coverage. Three Bosch Blue Line Gen 2 motion sensors covering LR, DR and main hall (additional coverage for entry doors). Everything has been running great for almost a year now and the only false alarms have been user error as we get used to the system.
 
I'm thinking about adding wireless glass break sensors. I would prefer wired sensors, but there's no room left for wired (panel can is completely full, 16 Elk zones used, 16 XIN zones used, Panduit wire trays almost full).
 
I already have an existing Elk M1XRFTW 2-way wireless transceiver installed for my key fob and there are plenty of wireless zone available. The battery life on wireless glass breaks is 5 - 10 years, so wireless seems to be a reasonable approach for these additional sensors.
 
The GB will be in rooms where the windows are covered with curtains, drapes, or wood shutters so I'm uncertain about performance.
 
Windows are regular glass, double-pane, low-e, not gas filled.
 
Honeywell 5853. $55 on Amazon. Four sensitivity settings (Max, Medium, Low and Lowest) to reduce false alarms. Can use my existing FG-701 Tester. Would need to install an Elk-M1XRF2H wireless receiver ($100). Honeywell is well-known for controls and high quality detection. The 5853 uses a Honeywell ASIC that they claim processes sound faster and more accurately to minimize false alarms. It will not trigger an alarm unless it detects two events in sequence: the low-frequency “flex” signal caused by glass flexure upon impact followed by the audible sound of shattering glass within specific frequency ranges. The alarm triggers only if these two events are perceived in sequence within an appropriate time frame. Detection range - 25' from window; no minimum. LEDs indicate test mode, alarms and trouble conditions. Claims 10 year battery life. Originally Ademco.
 
Elk 6040. $110 on Amazon. Apparently does not have any sensitivity settings. Uses the existing XRFTW transceiver. Elk claims two-way enables ACK from the transceiver to GB which reduces transmissions from the GB sensor and extends battery life. Detection range - 20' from window; 4' minimum. Claims 5 year battery life. Uses spread spectrum for RF reliability. Uses standard Elk enrollment of sensor using the keypad or RP software. Alarm detection LED visible through cover; RF status LED hidden behind cover. Elk recommends the GE Shatterpro UTC 5709C "or equivalent" tester/simulator. Can I use my Honeywell FG-701?
 
Units are about the same size and WAF, but the Elk is 50% thicker:
Honeywell: 4.95" H x 3.09" W x 1.10" D
Elk:       4.25" W x 3.13" H x 1.70" D
 
Help! Should I add the GB sensors? Should I go with Elk or Honeywell? How serious is the window covering problem?
 
Thanks to you gurus in advance!
Steve
Price is so high!!
 
vedardalarm said:
Price is so high!!
Yes. To cover every window (30) would be over $1,500 just for the window shock sensors! Indeed, a very high price. I may use them selectively for areas of highest risk, eg, BR not covered by motion sensors, rear and sides of house, etc.
 
SteveInNorCal said:
Yes. To cover every window (30) would be over $1,500 just for the window shock sensors! Indeed, a very high price. I may use them selectively for areas of highest risk, eg, BR not covered by motion sensors, rear and sides of house, etc.
I think you're not planning your installation correctly if you require a 1:1 ratio for GBD to window. Either you have very abnormal construction or furnishing details or you've missed how an acoustic based GBD functions and/or is installed/adjusted.
 
DELInstallations said:
I think you're not planning your installation correctly if you require a 1:1 ratio for GBD to window. Either you have very abnormal construction or furnishing details or you've missed how an acoustic based GBD functions and/or is installed/adjusted.
 
I'm concerned about shutters and drapes interfering with acoustic sensors. So I'm thinking of trying glass shock sensors on each window plus an acoustic GB sensor in each room. We have casement windows with large glass area, not individual small lights in the window. I'm going to test this out in the BR on the back and side of the house first to see if there's any false alarm problems, then expand.
 
Security screens would be the preferred for me on casement windows. Acoustic GBD as redundancy.
 
I'd purchase a single GBD and the appropriate tester and try your application, doubtful you'll need as many as you think you do unless there are greatly abnormal circumstances. If you can't get the detector to work on medium sensitivity, then you're increasing the amount to be installed.
 
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