Green, wet behind the ears, newbie, call it what you want

[HeyYou]

I'm going to skip the SH/Insteon questions and take a step back since the person at SH who told me he wanted to discuss my concerns in an email has never replied again.

I feel like an idiot. I was a programmer for over ten years, now moved into management, and I consider myself a DIY techy nerd. I want to create the fully automated, dream house that I can talk to my house and have it reply and do what I want...an AI system that LEARNS would be awesome but I am a long way from that day. In the mean time, I'd like to see if I can get some guidance on where to start. I've seen the topic for the best software and the topic for the best hardware. How about a Topic for the best EXPLANATION? For example, I see codes that people use to control different devices. Are you using assembly code and updating firmware on the devices? Or are you writing scripts to be used in HomeSeer? Or is it coding to be use in an ISY...and exactly what is the difference supposed to be between an ISY controller, the SH Smartlinc controller and other "insert acronym here" controllers? Do they all serve the same function or do they serve different purposes and I need ALL of them? For example, do I need the HomeSeer software to control my ISY or Smartlinc controller? What about this Troller controller with the HomeSeer Pro software I see on their website? I'm so confused.

I ALMOST want to see if there is a Home Automation for Dummies Book...lol. I've come across some really good tutorials but no end-all be-all home automation bible. Does such a beast exist? Do folks have their favorites? Or do I literally have to spend hundreds of hours sifting through forum posts hoping to find the right pieces of this incredible puzzle. While I thoroughly enjoy the journey, my better half will be ready to shoot me soon if I can't show her some more significant gains than "Look honey, you can turn the bathroom light on LOW when you have to go potty in the middle of the night"...lol.

I have all these grandiose ideas running through my head like setting up speakers and microphones throughout my house and being able to sit in bed and say "Computer, let the dog out"...only to hear the door open, then hear my dog bark in the back yard to come back inside, the computer OPENS the door and lets the dog back in...then announces "I let the dog out...now he is done and back in the house sleeping in your favorite chair...good night". But where do I START? I know, I know, it's a loaded question...work with me here...please?

 

[oberkc]

I only use insteon and the ISY-99.

In general, I suggest picking the protocal (X-10, insteon, UPB, Z-wave) first. Then worry about controllers. I can tell you that I am pretty satisfied with my insteon system, with the first of my devices going in about three years ago.

I have not seen an automation-for-dummies-like book. Most of what I learned was from forums such as this. I started with X-10 when I saw such things at lowes and radio shack. Insteon seemed like a natural progression. Would I change formats if I could start over? Possibly, but probably not. Insteon seems like a good mix of price and performance to me.

Within the family of insteon (and I assume other formats) the major question to ask yourself is whether you are willing to leave a computer on constantly and are willing to rely on a computer running for your automation needs. Answering this question narrows your choices down to hardware or software solutions. Software solutions may offer a bit more flexibility or power and may be a little cheaper up front. I chose hardware-based.

Again, within the family of insteon, hardware controllers include the ISY and the smartlinc controller. The smartlinc appears to issue commands based purely on time and schedule. I understand it has no conditional (based on device status or command) logic that the ISY has. The ISY also includes integration with other technologies that I assume are absent in the smartlinc controller, such as security systems and irrigation systems. Perhaps others more familiar with smartlinc can correct me here. I chose the ISY and am very happy with the it.

Regarding the ISY, there is no separate software or "coding". While ISY programs look a lot like a programming language when displayed, they are generated by the ISY based on creation from dialog boxes and drop-down menus.

Keep reading the various forums and I think you will get a good feel for the differences.

 

[Steve]

HeyYou,

First, Welcome to CocoonTech. You certainly found the right place to get all the info you need. We all started off in different places, so don't worry about non understanding this stuff or being lost. I don't have alot of time right now, but I'll try to give you some basics to chew on.

First, Pretty much forget about open air voice control for now. Having that work good in a typical household with multiple family members and all the typical ambient noise is VERY difficult and expensive to get working well. There are other options like using voice via a telephone that works better but put this one in the future nice to have category.

To start, think of your HA world as a group of subsystems. You will typically have some sort of controller(s) and then your systems such as security, lighting, music, etc...

Start with your main brain or controller. You can use hardware, software or both. You have high end dealer installed system like Crestron, Control4, etc all the way down to simple freeware software. If you want to DIY then you right off eliminate all the high end dealer stuff. If like most people you also have a need for security, that's where you see the Elk M1G and HAI OmniPro discussed. Those systems are primarily great UL listed security panels with the addition of integrated automation components. Either of those would make a good backbone controller for your security and primary automation. Your subsystems like lighting would tie into those controllers typically via a serial interface. Each subsystem has an interface protocol that allows it to communicate with the host controller. So as an example you can have an HAI OmniProII and connect UPB for lighting, Nuvo for music, relays for irrigation and other purposes, etc. All of those components would be ultimately controlled by the OmniPro and you can program it with built in programming logic or you can add things like iPhone/iPad interfaces to control it. HAI also has some nice proprietary add on systems as well.

Many people would stop there and have a totally integrated system purely with that hardware and perhaps a touchscreen or phone interface to it. If you don't need security you can use software packages that allow you to do the same types of things but you will usually need some extra hardware. Software controllers on dedicated hardware can work well but never use a generic household daily driver pc as your main controller.

So, software can be your main controller if setup right and you have no need for security but many people will use software IN ADDITION to the above hardware setup. That's because hardware panels with firmware are more difficult to update and they have limited memory, so some things such as text to speech, weather monitoring, etc... are usually done on a supplemental software system. The software can usually talk directly to the controller panel OR directly to your subsystems via drivers/plugins that understand the communication protocol of what it is talking to.

I would start your journey by deciding what subsystems (in general) you may want and then focus in on the type of main controller you want. You should decide on your controller, buy it, install it and get comfortable with it. Then you can always add your subsystems whenever you want at your leisure. You will ALWAYS be adding and tweaking, but beware, there is a balance between a nice working stable system that you keep growing and improving and a mess that you are always in and tweaking to fix and keep working - you don't want the latter!

Anyway, how that helps a little...

 

[mrhappy]

Good advice really to pick your protocol first, I chose X10 but thats mainly because I don't get alot more choice here...i'm envious you get a greater choice but they all have there various pros and cons. I do however use HomeSeer, I run it on an eeeBox but any PC would do (or the HomeTroller) - the downside is you will have a PC on 24x7 but if you get a low power PC then this can lower your energy costs. There is alot of info on the HomeSeer message board if you are interested - I like it, it can be extremely powerful but you may have to put some time into scripting (part of the fun for me) to get some really advanced stuff.

There is a smarthomes for dummies book...you can see some of it on Google Books...

VR can be done (with HomeSeer, but it uses Windows speech recognition), but I had mixed results with it (well I do come from the same city as Ozzy Osborne...i'm not that surprised windows can't understand me) - I think personally you need to invest in the proper equipment and spend some time training it and training it and you should get acceptable VR performance.

 

[apostolakisl]

I will tell you what I have and a summary of what is good and what is bad.

Elk M1G with the ethernet interface, 2 zone expansion boards, and 3 relay boards. I also have the serial interface board but I changed things around (bought an ISY 99) so it is not being used.

ISY 99ir pro. A bunch of insteon stuff.

1) The elk is a great security system. It is very reliable and very standard in its security interfaces allowing you to hook up pretty much anything security-wise. It is also a home automation controller but is a bit cumbersome in my opinion. The programming (rules as they call them) are very reliable and quite capable, but not very efficiently programmed. Also, it is very hard to organize the rules and remember what the heck you did or why you did it when you go back to adjust things months or years later.

2) Insteon. Reasonably priced home automation. It is attractive and feels solid to the touch. It does not require any wiring that is different than standard so it can be added to an existing house (unless it is a very old house) with no modifications, or it can be removed from a house and regular stuff put back (not stuck with it). It would seem that quality is at present good (had serious problems in past but have been descent about warranty). Reliability is good, but far from perfect. This is not what you want on "mission critical" stuff. It does not require the use of any outside controller, but it is highly recommended (by my and most others) that if you plan on using any number of insteon products, that you get an ISY.

3) ISY. Is a very nicely put together tiny little device (smaller than a router). It programs very well and is very organized. It has pretty much endless capacity. It is scheduled to be fully integrated with the Elk any day now???? I hope. It is very reliable, but the Insteon stuff it controls won't be 100%. It seems as though there is a lot of untapped potential in the hardware and as the firmware keeps getting fancier, so will its capabilities. The IR support is only incomming. The only acceptable way to get outbound IR, as far as I know, is to get a global cache (which are a little pricey). The ISY has additional capabilites with the addition of the network module if you are a true to the core programmer.

 

[nick_l]

I have all these grandiose ideas running through my head like setting up speakers and microphones throughout my house and being able to sit in bed and say "Computer, let the dog out"...only to hear the door open, then hear my dog bark in the back yard to come back inside, the computer OPENS the door and lets the dog back in...then announces "I let the dog out...now he is done and back in the house sleeping in your favorite chair...good night". But where do I START? I know, I know, it's a loaded question...work with me here...please?

Firstly, I would suggest discarding the idea of a HAL style automation system right now. It will cloud your opinion of Home Automation forever. We are a LONG way away from the days of "hey computer, Turn on lights a, b and c in x minutes, start the hot tub in y minutes and have z playing on the patio audio system when I come home".

That being said, it is (relatively) easy to create a system that can perform SPECIFIC tasks easily. For instance your task of the dog going out could be accomplished with a motorized dog door (several available) that is on a timer so that fido is not in the back yard at 4a.m. barking at the squirrels. His entry/exit could be accomplished by several methods, for instance RFID on the collar would allow access to your pet but not the neighborhood cats. In other words if you expect your HA to fulfill your random and capricious desires you will always be disappointed but if you identify specific tasks there is almost always a way to accomplish them.

Secondly, I would personally recommend NOT picking a protocol first, but instead pick a platform (eg. Homeseer, CQC, elve, etc.). There are many to choose from in a variety of price points and features and most have trial periods so you can install them and play with the interfaces, etc. Most will support multiple protocols so there really isnt a need to choose only one. You can have an X-10 fan speed switch and Z-Wave water sensors and UPB pool and spa controllers and DMX-512 home theater lighting if that is what you want. If you keep your options open you can pick the best tool for each task. I would suggest picking up a couple of x-10 devices first (the protocol is fairly limited by todays standards but its been around for 30 years and there are thousands of devices and they are CHEAP). Play with them for a couple of weeks/months to get an idea of what is possible, then you can re-evaluate your situation and make a better choice.

As far as controllers are concerned, you are getting way too hung up on specifics, the controller is really just the translator between your HA software and the specific device you are trying to control (the ISY is a little different because it contains some of its own intelligence but many people have found that using it as the controller between their Home automation software and devices is very beneficial to the reliability of their insteon networks, for example). The thing to remember is that for whatever protocol(s) you choose, you will need a controller. You will get much better answers by asking questions like "Im going to be using some x-10 powerline devices in my Homeseer controlled network. What is the best controller to use?"

Anyhow, good luck.

 

[Rupp]

I have all these grandiose ideas running through my head like setting up speakers and microphones throughout my house and being able to sit in bed and say "Computer, let the dog out"...only to hear the door open, then hear my dog bark in the back yard to come back inside, the computer OPENS the door and lets the dog back in...then announces "I let the dog out...now he is done and back in the house sleeping in your favorite chair...good night". But where do I START? I know, I know, it's a loaded question...work with me here...please?

Firstly, I would suggest discarding the idea of a HAL style automation system right now. It will cloud your opinion of Home Automation forever. We are a LONG way away from the days of "hey computer, Turn on lights a, b and c in x minutes, start the hot tub in y minutes and have z playing on the patio audio system when I come home".

I'll have to disagree with this. With the correct mic setup all of this is not only possible but many HomeSeer users do this now. I didn't go the whole house mic route but I use HomeSeer phone as my VR input device. In the winter months when I get out of the shower I pick up my phone and tell "computer" (name of my HomeSeer server, original isn't it )please start the car. This is just one of many examples of how you can use the VR of HomeSeer to automate anything that is interfaced to your HomeSeer server. The example above is built into HomeSeer where you can say turn on the living room lights in 10 minutes, along with many other build in vr commands.

 

[HeyYou]

Secondly, I would personally recommend NOT picking a protocol first, but instead pick a platform (eg. Homeseer, CQC, elve, etc.). There are many to choose from in a variety of price points and features and most have trial periods so you can install them and play with the interfaces, etc. Most will support multiple protocols so there really isnt a need to choose only one. You can have an X-10 fan speed switch and Z-Wave water sensors and UPB pool and spa controllers and DMX-512 home theater lighting if that is what you want. If you keep your options open you can pick the best tool for each task. I would suggest picking up a couple of x-10 devices first (the protocol is fairly limited by todays standards but its been around for 30 years and there are thousands of devices and they are CHEAP). Play with them for a couple of weeks/months to get an idea of what is possible, then you can re-evaluate your situation and make a better choice.

As far as controllers are concerned, you are getting way too hung up on specifics, the controller is really just the translator between your HA software and the specific device you are trying to control (the ISY is a little different because it contains some of its own intelligence but many people have found that using it as the controller between their Home automation software and devices is very beneficial to the reliability of their insteon networks, for example). The thing to remember is that for whatever protocol(s) you choose, you will need a controller. You will get much better answers by asking questions like "Im going to be using some x-10 powerline devices in my Homeseer controlled network. What is the best controller to use?"

Anyhow, good luck.

Ironically, this is the process I was seriously considering following. I purchased a handful of Insteon devices including the Smartlinc controller. But I keep reading bits and pieces in different forums and I keep finding myself asking why can't I find a really good software controller that communicates with multiple protocols and and then use ALL of the protocols. If X-10 does light switches best, then use X10 for lighting. If z-wave works best with my electronic front door, then use z-wave. etc. And if I can find a GOOD software package to help manage all of the pieces, then why wouldn't I want to go that route. So, I guess that brings me to your question Nick...I want to use a little bit of everything. Does that mean HomeSeer is THE best package to use? I don't have a need for the security component. Fortunately, I'm doing this in a townhouse I own and when I build my house, I will incorporate the security component. But for now, I'm using the townhouse as my learning playground. Whatever I can bring with me when i move, great. At that point, I'll add in the security component.

So, all that being said, I'm still having problems wrapping my head around the concept there is a difference between a controller and controlling software...I think...lol. I guess I thought HomeSeer IS a controller and it replaces the need for an ISY. I'm so confused....I feel like Vinny Barbarino...lol. Maybe I'll check Google for the dummies book and see if it is worthwhile or a waste of money....

 

[IndyMike]

I feel like an idiot. I was a programmer for over ten years, now moved into management, and I consider myself a DIY techy nerd.

You're not an idiot, you've just gone over to the dark side (management). I've been a design engineer for over 30 years and have had many friends "convert" to managment. I don't consider them idiots. On the contrary, I've had to change my "discipline" from control theory, to component design, hydro-mechanical design, and back to electro-mechanical design (same company). After 30+ years, I'm an expert at nothing. My friends are extremely good at management (still consider this to be the dark side).

I want to create the fully automated, dream house that I can talk to my house and have it reply and do what I want...an AI system that LEARNS would be awesome but I am a long way from that day.

As others have stated, we're not there yet. Voice control requires a well regulated environment to be reliable. Variations in sound absorption, reflections, and background noise will kill voice recognition as you move around a home. A HA system would need to learn the acoustics of a room over it's entire area and with all the possible background interference.

Again, as others have stated, try to think of different ways of accomplishing the same goal. A RF remote, timer control, or occupancy sensor can accomplish a lot of these tasks.

In the mean time, I'd like to see if I can get some guidance on where to start. I've seen the topic for the best software and the topic for the best hardware. How about a Topic for the best EXPLANATION? For example, I see codes that people use to control different devices. Are you using assembly code and updating firmware on the devices?

Many of the newer controllers offer field upgradeable firmware. I'm not aware of any lighting or actuation devices that are field upgradeable. I'm guessing, but the codes that you are seeing posted are for serial communication from one controller to another.

Or are you writing scripts to be used in HomeSeer? Or is it coding to be use in an ISY...and exactly what is the difference supposed to be between an ISY controller, the SH Smartlinc controller and other "insert acronym here" controllers? Do they all serve the same function or do they serve different purposes and I need ALL of them? For example, do I need the HomeSeer software to control my ISY or Smartlinc controller? What about this Troller controller with the HomeSeer Pro software I see on their website? I'm so confused.

I'll start with my strong area and end with the weekest:
1) The ISY is a standalone networked controller. It currently has interfaces supports X10 (limited by the SH modem), Insteon, ELK-M1 (via lan), Email notifications, Bruhltech monitor, Network server (webpage, wake on lan), IR interface, and climate module (weatherbug). It currently supports Insteon devices, but there are plans for UPB (contact Universal-Devices). Support is second to none, and firmware upgrades are frequent (to support new modules).
2) The Smarlinc is a rather basic device for linking and connecting Insteon (only) devices and allowing external (web/phone) access.
3) HomeSeer - rather powerful, multi-platform software (PC based). Trial versions were available (not sure now). Have not tried this since 2006.

I ALMOST want to see if there is a Home Automation for Dummies Book...lol. I've come across some really good tutorials but no end-all be-all home automation bible. Does such a beast exist? Do folks have their favorites? Or do I literally have to spend hundreds of hours sifting through forum posts hoping to find the right pieces of this incredible puzzle. While I thoroughly enjoy the journey, my better half will be ready to shoot me soon if I can't show her some more significant gains than "Look honey, you can turn the bathroom light on LOW when you have to go potty in the middle of the night"...lol.

Sorry, if you want to read about X10 there are loads of books on the subject. They were outdated in the '80s. If you want to read about protocols for more recent technologies (Insteon, UPB, Zwave) we can point you to white papers. System implementation and controller technology is moving too fast to be documented in a book. You've reached the correct place for that, but it will require work on your part.

In reading the previous posts, I now realize that I "backed into" my system. I was enamored by the Insteon protocol and the X10 compatibility in 2005 and jumped in (well, maybe waded in). I then realized that a great protocol is nothing without an equivalent controller. I waited for 2 years for the ISY-26 (Universal-Devices) and have been pleased ever since.

Lastly (you're likely tired of me droning on), don't force your HA system on what you are trying to accomplish. As Nick_L stated, there is no single system that is ideally suited to every application. Systems that require high reliability (security, HVAC) should (my opinion) always be hardwired with a dedicated panel. On the other end of the spectrum, I constantly see people "over automating" simple functions. I do not see the value in installing a communicating timer switch to control my bath fan when a simple Hardwired Leviton 2-4-8-10 Minute device will suffice.

 

[Rupp]

Ironically, this is the process I was seriously considering following. I purchased a handful of Insteon devices including the Smartlinc controller. But I keep reading bits and pieces in different forums and I keep finding myself asking why can't I find a really good software controller that communicates with multiple protocols and and then use ALL of the protocols. If X-10 does light switches best, then use X10 for lighting. If z-wave works best with my electronic front door, then use z-wave. etc. And if I can find a GOOD software package to help manage all of the pieces, then why wouldn't I want to go that route. So, I guess that brings me to your question Nick...I want to use a little bit of everything. Does that mean HomeSeer is THE best package to use? I don't have a need for the security component. Fortunately, I'm doing this in a townhouse I own and when I build my house, I will incorporate the security component. But for now, I'm using the townhouse as my learning playground. Whatever I can bring with me when i move, great. At that point, I'll add in the security component.

So, all that being said, I'm still having problems wrapping my head around the concept there is a difference between a controller and controlling software...I think...lol. I guess I thought HomeSeer IS a controller and it replaces the need for an ISY. I'm so confused....I feel like Vinny Barbarino...lol. Maybe I'll check Google for the dummies book and see if it is worthwhile or a waste of money....

I can answer your HomeSeer questions, and the answer is yes. HomeSeer is software that runs on an always on PC/Server that can interface with X10, Insteon, Z-Wave, UPB, etc, etc all at the same time using an interface for each of protocols you want to communicate with. There are other software packages that will do the same but I'm partial to HomeSeer having been using it for over 10 years. So for example you want to have a few X10 lamp/appliance modules, you simply get an X10 interface like the older CM11A ( if you can still find them) or the TI-103, etc and attach this to your HomeSeer server and you can control the lights with scenes and events. The same goes for each of the protocols.
You are right about the ISY, it's a controller that only speaks Insteon where as HomeSeer is a software package combined with a PC can talk all protocols. Some would argue that hardware controllers are more stable that PC's and this may be true but the setup correctly a PC can be as stable and allows for much more expansion. Keep asking questions, as this is the best way to educate yourself. Like the teacher used to say, there are no dumb questions.

 

[HeyYou]

Keep asking questions, as this is the best way to educate yourself. Like the teacher used to say, there are no dumb questions.

In the beginning of my 5th grade year, my teacher called my parents in...your son does not ask enough questions....

In the beginning of my 6th grade year...I'm sorry but, your son asks a LOT of questions and it's disturbing the class.

Moral - be careful what you ask for.....lol


Anyway, I appreciate the guidance.

So, I want to make sure I have this correct, the ISY is only used to communicate with the Insteon devices, right? i.e. you create events and scenes in HomeSeer which in turn communicates those events to the ISY which in turn communicates with the individual Insteon devices...have I got that correct? Then, what controller is used to communicate with the other protocols? It would seem HomeSeer is heavily invested in z-wave opposed to X10, Insteon, UPB, etc. So, if I buy some z-wave devices to use as well, what controller do I need to have the HomeSeer SW communicate with those devices?

Now, are Elve(sp?), oQc, Nuvo other software products on par with HomeSeer? Meaning, they are all-inclusive packages to manage/control all of the devices by sending instructions via the controllers? Is there a software package I can get to manage/control all of this with a nice intuitive GUI AND control all of my Home Theater stuff as well? If I want to tell Verizon to kiss my bumper and start going with Hulu, Netflix, Apple, etc.?

Thanks for the guidance...it's always appreciated.

 

[Deane Johnson]

You should also know that you don't need much to get started. A software program and some power line interface modules will get you up and running until you get a better grasp of where you want to go.

That's the approach I took. The main software applications are all good. Homeseer, CQC, MainLobby, Elve all have there own strengths and selling points. One is not necessarily better than another, just different in approach, cost, and learning complexity.

I chose Elve for my approach. It's in beta and free at the moment, then only $99 for awhile. That appealed to me. Nothing for a beginner like me to lose. I've been using it for multiple months now without paying out anything. When it goes commercial, I'll pay $99. That's all inclusive including drivers, touch screen design, about everything.

I looked at CQC as it has a lot of followers and Dean Roddy is an outstanding programmer. I didn't like the cost, but more importantly, everyone comments on how steep the learning curve is. That caused me to back away, as I'm not a programmer.

I looked at HomeSeer, but didn't like the way they want more money for everything you want to use it for. It's probably the granddaddy of DIY systems. It's probably about the most mature and probably has the largest selection of drivers available.

MainLobby, I didn't look at other than admiring their nice graphics. Too expensive, and it didn't get mentioned much on the forums. But, it looks worthwhile.

Other than the software, which I haven't paid anything for yet, I only needed some power line interface modules (PIM) to connect from my computer's USB ports to my household items and front projection home theater equipment.

USB-UIRT for IR in and out.
RZC0P for Z-Wave interface
ACT Ti103 for X-10

I'll be adding a PCS PulseWorx Model PIM-U for UPB soon, and probably dumping my Z-Wave.

The above PIMs are probably all supported by any of the main stream software choices. So, it all gets back to what you want to use to control everything.

The above was my approach due to budget considerations and not wanting to get into a huge learning curve. Other guys on here have bigger budgets and are smarter than me. They may take a different route. I've even seen on another forum where a newby with a limited budget asked for help and someone recommended Crestron. That's not very helpful.

Remember, you're going to learn and grow. You can't get your mind around all of it at the beginning.

 

[oberkc]

So, I want to make sure I have this correct, the ISY is only used to communicate with the Insteon devices, right?

ISY also does X-10.

ISY. Is a very nicely put together tiny little device (smaller than a router). It programs very well and is very organized. It has pretty much endless capacity. It is scheduled to be fully integrated with the Elk any day now????

While I don't use the Elk system, I understand integration with the ISY is complete and has been for as at least as long as I have been using the ISY.

The only acceptable way to get outbound IR, as far as I know, is to get a global cache (which are a little pricey).

Insteon now has an IR emitter device. Can be used with the ISY.

So, all that being said, I'm still having problems wrapping my head around the concept there is a difference between a controller and controlling software...I think...lol. I guess I thought HomeSeer IS a controller and it replaces the need for an ISY. I'm so confused....I feel like Vinny Barbarino...lol. Maybe I'll check Google for the dummies book and see if it is worthwhile or a waste of money....

In my line of work, people like to make a big deal out of the differences in hardware/software/firmware. In the end, software doesn't exist without hardware and hardware doesn't work without software. And software is software. Firmware is nothing more than software on a particular media. At least that is my way of thinking.

My understanding is that HomeSeer is a piece of software that one runs on a PC, so your PC is the hardware. For such software, I understand you may need additional hardware such as powerline interfaces, RF interfaces, etc.

Hardware controllers DO have software. It just happens to be built-in.

 

[HeyYou]

In my line of work, people like to make a big deal out of the differences in hardware/software/firmware. In the end, software doesn't exist without hardware and hardware doesn't work without software. And software is software. Firmware is nothing more than software on a particular media. At least that is my way of thinking.

My understanding is that HomeSeer is a piece of software that one runs on a PC, so your PC is the hardware. For such software, I understand you may need additional hardware such as powerline interfaces, RF interfaces, etc.

Hardware controllers DO have software. It just happens to be built-in.

Okay, just to make sure I have this correct...trying to tap into my old assembly and VB days, are you saying...

the assembly language firmware loaded onto the ISY controller = the C or VB or WHATEVER language software coding in HomeSeer or Elve? The only difference being the ISY controller requires you to code the events yourself and the others have this nice GUI to allow you to pick and choose what events/scenes you want to build and use?

Bottom line, if I buy HomeSeer and some Insteon Access points and switches, I can control them with nothing else? Or do I STILL need a physical controller to communicate between the on-air insteon devices and the HomeSeer software? (I know, I know, I'm hard headed as he11...lol)

(This is my edit)Bottom line part 2, can I exchange Elve with HomeSeer above and everything would still be the same? I like some of the goodies I'm seeing on the Core Technologies page and I don't mind coding a little to custom things.

 

[Rupp]

Keep asking questions, as this is the best way to educate yourself. Like the teacher used to say, there are no dumb questions.

In the beginning of my 5th grade year, my teacher called my parents in...your son does not ask enough questions....

In the beginning of my 6th grade year...I'm sorry but, your son asks a LOT of questions and it's disturbing the class.

Moral - be careful what you ask for.....lol


Anyway, I appreciate the guidance.

So, I want to make sure I have this correct, the ISY is only used to communicate with the Insteon devices, right? i.e. you create events and scenes in HomeSeer which in turn communicates those events to the ISY which in turn communicates with the individual Insteon devices...have I got that correct? Then, what controller is used to communicate with the other protocols? It would seem HomeSeer is heavily invested in z-wave opposed to X10, Insteon, UPB, etc. So, if I buy some z-wave devices to use as well, what controller do I need to have the HomeSeer SW communicate with those devices?

Now, are Elve(sp?), oQc, Nuvo other software products on par with HomeSeer? Meaning, they are all-inclusive packages to manage/control all of the devices by sending instructions via the controllers? Is there a software package I can get to manage/control all of this with a nice intuitive GUI AND control all of my Home Theater stuff as well? If I want to tell Verizon to kiss my bumper and start going with Hulu, Netflix, Apple, etc.?

Thanks for the guidance...it's always appreciated.

If you are using HomeSeer the ISY (stand alone controller) isn't needed. All you need is one of the PLM (Powerline modems) to interface your PC with Inseon. http://store.homeseer.com/store/X-P767C188.aspx

For X10 you could use a TI-103 : http://store.homeseer.com/store/TI103---X1...Pro-P20C45.aspx
or a CM11A if you can find them.

For UPB : http://www.smarthome.com/22921/Computer-UP...AUMCDB9W/p.aspx

For Z-Wave: http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeSeer-Z...al-P214C66.aspx

As far as how they all compare it's a matter of downloading the free 30 day trials and give them a whirl. Here's info on HomeSeer:
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HS2---Home...eer-P103C5.aspx

and a 30 day trial is available here:
http://www.homeseer.com/pub/setuphs2_4_0_1.exe or http://www.homeseer.com/downloads