HA Newbie:CQC, Homeseer or other?

[fdiddy]

I will be living in small(ish) apartments for quite a few years seeing as I'm a Vancouverite in my early 20's (for those unaware, Vancouver is a city with ridiculous real estate prices). Therefore, a very important feature for me is movability. I want equipment that lends itself to being picked up and moved every 5 or 8 years.

My ideal setup:
-PS3 for blu-ray audio, SACD listening
-AVR (not decided)
-Separate power amp (not decided
-PC streaming, preferably itunes

Multiroom audio isn't important because I won't really have multiple rooms. What is important is a touchscreen controller that controls my audio as well as lights, climate control, shades. I want to have motion control to turn lights on and off (as well as traditional switches).

A feature that I want very much is real time status of my devices for the controller. For example, if I get up, turn the playstation on by hand, and then sit on the couch to control the music with the touchscreen, it should realize that the unit is now on and playing.

One reason that I'm undecided about the receiver and amp is because I'm not sure whether I can use devices of my choosing or if they will be included with my automation system. For the record, I'd like to be able to choose my own, but this certainly isn't a deal breaker.

I don't and never will want home theatre/video control with this system so upgradeability in that regard is useless to me.

I am very competent with DIY, very computer and technologically savvy and doubt that learning simple programming would be out of my reach. Having a CI come in and install something for me would be an extreme and very last resort. In other words, not wanted.

I read about IVB's project and it looks awesome, just like what I want. Is CQC with a computer a better (more flexible maybe?) option than a crestron or amx system? I'm assuming it's much cheaper. I've also just recently read about homeseer. Much cheaper, but is it worth it?

The only worry I have is that leaving a Windows pc on all the time results in slow response. Windows has always had memory dump issues, and after a few weeks, I'm sure that it would slow down. I guess restarts could be scheduled every night or two nights to combat this problem.

Does the xml gateway allow me to control CQC from other computers, phones with browsers etc.? Can homeseer do this?

The list of supported hardware on the website is kind of short. Can I use anything with an rs-232 port, or is that list strict?

Sorry for the long post, but I'm really interested in learning a lot, so I have a pretty limitless aresenal of questions . Thanks for the replies.

 

[jwilson56]

Did you see my Now Playing project? Look in the showcase for my house.

 

[fdiddy]

Your setup looks really nice jwilson. I like your touchpad and pda use, and might consider stealing your idea. However, I don't want to use x-10, I would prefer Z-Wave. I might even banish wireless altogether but that isn't concrete. Therefore, I don't think girder is suitable for my application.

 

[jwilson56]

Well I happen to have had X10 for some time. If I were going to use Z-wave it would still be totally possible. Just use the ELK-M1XZW with my Elk which is what is controlling the X10 stuff now and just use the Girder Elk plugin to control them through the Elk. So I don't see any problems with new protocols down the road.


http://www.elkproducts.com/products/m1/M1XZW.htm

The same applies to UPB. So I don't think there should be a problem. There are many people that use CQC, Mainlobby, Homeseer that also use an Elk in their setups. It a wise choice.

 

[fdiddy]

You will see how fresh I am with this post.

As I understand it, with Girder I would be using a PC as the controller (brain) with Girder as the software for it. I would use input devices (touchscreens, pdas) for user input, all of which would go to controlling devices such as switches for lights, receiver, drapes...

I thought that Elk was a controller, basically a redundancy (albeit with other features) when using the PC+Girder. Can you explain the difference, or what the benefit of using both is?

If you can try to explain things to me in baby steps as I haven't a fully encompassing grasp of HA. Thanks.

 

[sic0048]

You basically will not be able to DIY a system from Crestron or AMX or the other Professional Hardware systems. They work really well, but are expensive and nearly impossible to do yourself. They simply do not allow users to have access to the systems needed to make changes.

That is why so many people here use a software based control system. I personally use CQC, but I'm not going to start a debate about which system is better. There are plenty of threads here that dive into that question. Although you have to have a computer running 24/7 (although some people do shut down during obvious down times, it isn't really a good idea IMHO) to run the system, the systems can have most of the capacity of a hardware based system.

With the software based systems, any of the popular versions used here can be DIY. In fact, most of them have a very health DIY community that helps fellow users out and exchanges ideas.

 

[sic0048]

You will see how fresh I am with this post.

As I understand it, with Girder I would be using a PC as the controller (brain) with Girder as the software for it. I would use input devices (touchscreens, pdas) for user input, all of which would go to controlling devices such as switches for lights, receiver, drapes...

I thought that Elk was a controller, basically a redundancy (albeit with other features) when using the PC+Girder. Can you explain the difference, or what the benefit of using both is?

If you can try to explain things to me in baby steps as I haven't a fully encompassing grasp of HA. Thanks.

The ELK is really an alarm system that has home automation capacities. But it has limitations in memory size and hardware compatibility that must be considered should you want to use it as a stand alone automation system.

 

[IVB]

Does the xml gateway allow me to control CQC from other computers, phones with browsers etc.?

Yes, but no need to. CQC is a truly network distributed product, so you just install the interface viewer on whatever PC you want to use to control it, and you're done. I put it on every PC I have, incl me & wife's laptops. For phones, if they're microsoft windows mobile, you can use the DotNetViewer pull up your screens. You use the same interface builder that you do for regular screens to create a 320x240 size version. Not everything is supported, but a lot is.

i'd answer more thoroughly, but i'm massively throbbingly disgustingly hung over. Boy, that CQC 201 Webinar this morning was fun on 3.5 hours of drunken "sleep".

 

[IVB]

btw, if you check out the links in my sig, you'll see an IntroToHA pdf that covers some stuff about Elk & CQC, and the CQC 101 webinar recording with both the walkthrough of that PDF plus about an hour of setting up CQC and the Elk to accomplish some basic stuff. If you've got 90 mins to watch it, you'll likely "get" this a lot more.

 

[fdiddy]

Thanks for the replies, I'll watch your video later on IVB.

So I still don't see the benefit of using elk as well as the PC and software. Is it just to have a touchpad or does it offer certain functions that you can't do using uniquely the PC.

i'd answer more thoroughly, but i'm massively throbbingly disgustingly hung over. Boy, that CQC 201 Webinar this morning was fun on 3.5 hours of drunken "sleep".

I hope you had a good night! I might be doing some of the same tonight. Cheers!

 

[Rupp]

HomeSeer can do as you desire and if you do not want to run it on an always on PC you should check out the new HomeTroller 2. It's a small form factor PC that runs embedded XP which eliminates the bloat and memory hogging of regular XP and it uses less power than a 20 watt light bulb.
http://store.homeseer.com/store/HomeTrolle...er-P589C81.aspx
Unless you need a security system then the ELK isn't the direction you should go. Check out the HomeSeer message board and feel free to ask any HomeSeer related question there.
http://board.homeseer.com

 

[IVB]

Thanks for the replies, I'll watch your video later on IVB.

So I still don't see the benefit of using elk as well as the PC and software. Is it just to have a touchpad or does it offer certain functions that you can't do using uniquely the PC.

Basically, connect more stuff. If you're living in an apartment and want easy transportability, it's probably not needed. Here's what I have hooked up to the Elk:
- Standard Security stuff (motion sensors, door/window sensors) so I can auto on/off lights & music based on either occupancy or entry/exit. You could get contact closures that connect direct to CQC, so no need if you won't be integrating security. You can just get the regular ones (although I don't know if they make wireless ones that connect direct to CQC)
- Water Sensors, temperature sensors. Also temp sensors that connect direct to CQC, such as the QKits VK011 temp sensors, so this isn't a big enough need to get an Elk

I needed to have a 24x7 PC anyhow for SageTV, so I just put CQC on that. Zero incremental power demands as it's already on, that's even less than a 20W appliance

 

[jwilson56]

I used to run a PC only system but I find the automation capabilities as well as the reliable wireless receiver a great asset for some of the automation tasks that need to be more reliable than just the PC system can deliver. Of coarse you also get a security panel. But I know for a fact that there are many people here that use an Elk with a PC front end for doing Text To Speech (TTS) as well as weather, Caller ID announcing and database logging and a bunch of other things the Elk can't do by itself. The Elk is just a great addition. Personally I used Homeseer but wanted a tighter integration with a GUI interface and my whole house audio system so I switched to Girder 5. My second choice would probably be CQC if I had lots of money.

Personally I don't care what people use.... I only share my ideas and let the user decide. There are a few ways to skin this cat as they say....

 

[t_garp]

Since youre in Van..you should check out mControl. It is an automation plugin for Windows MCE. They have also developped their own touch panel, the mPanel. The guys who developped it are in Surrey.

http://www.embeddedautomation.com/EAHAMain.htm

I personally went went with an Elan system + an Elk, but it is NOT easly moveable or DIY friendly...

As a former Vancouverite, I understand the crazy prices...lets just say I traded may 870sq.ft. Yaletwon condo for a 5000sq.ft house on the east coast...

 

[Rupp]

I used to run a PC only system but I find the automation capabilities as well as the reliable wireless receiver a great asset for some of the automation tasks that need to be more reliable than just the PC system can deliver. Of coarse you also get a security panel. But I know for a fact that there are many people here that use an Elk with a PC front end for doing Text To Speech (TTS) as well as weather, Caller ID announcing and database logging and a bunch of other things the Elk can't do by itself. The Elk is just a great addition. Personally I used Homeseer but wanted a tighter integration with a GUI interface and my whole house audio system so I switched to Girder 5. My second choice would probably be CQC if I had lots of money.

Personally I don't care what people use.... I only share my ideas and let the user decide. There are a few ways to skin this cat as they say....

John, you should check out HSTouch. It's a nice touch screen package and is easy to use. I'm amazed what it can do out of the box as a beta as well.