Help UPB WAF Emergency
- Thread starter hucker
- Start date
do you know if any of your neighbors are also using UPB? you might go into UPStart and reprogram the switches with a different network ID just in case someone on your transformer is using UPB and happens to be using the same network ID. if that's the case, you're randomly turning on and off his switches as well 
hucker
Active Member
do you know if any of your neighbors are also using UPB? you might go into UPStart and reprogram the switches with a different network ID just in case someone on your transformer is using UPB and happens to be using the same network ID. if that's the case, you're randomly turning on and off his switches as well
I don't think that is it. I watched in the logger and I see the same switch being turned on a bunch of times then off a bunch, randomly. I thought it might be some dimmable flourescents I put in a while ago when I isolated them. Turning them off seemed to fix the problem. Then I turned them back on an hour later and the lights are still working. I suspect that whatever was making this happen went away. I'm going to borrow a scope to look at the line voltage (my digital scope won't do 120V AC) and see if I can see it. Right now I'm also logging data using the Network Communications Test in UPStart.
hucker
Active Member
Not sure how far away to look. The houses here are on 1.5 acre lots so I don't have that many neighbors. There are lights around but notthing crazy. I don't see any motorized things or things with fans but I'll check again. It started at 5PM yesterday and went to about 7PM. I didn't see noise on any tests I did with individual lights but then I did a verify of my whole network and it complained about noise... I'm going to get a scope on it and see if anything comes up...
Thanks for your help...
LightenUP
Active Member
I have a client in Florida that has used PCS switches, (apprx 50) and some of them are going off and on as well. The NID is unique so I know it isn't cross talk. We think it may be to brown outs though I'm not sure how to prove that. The normal switches in the home are not affected. They seem to dim off for a second then come right back on at the last level before they went off. In this same house, a PCS eight button is audibly loud when only one of the links is activated. They devices that are in that scene, when you use them locally no buzzing on the eight button, but when the link is sent from the eight button there is buzzing. Are the two issues related?
Today we have the chance to run more diagnostics to see if maybe the switch is stuck in transmit mode, I'll let you know. But, if you have any advice it could help while there.
Today we have the chance to run more diagnostics to see if maybe the switch is stuck in transmit mode, I'll let you know. But, if you have any advice it could help while there.
dBeau
Active Member
It's pretty unlikely that random noise is causing the problem. Noise is more likely to stop a device from responding. The protocol is pretty robust. Even if one were to intentionally transmit random data over the power line, the odds that the data would 1) form a valid packet 2) for your network, 3) for one of your devices, is pretty slim. I'd be looking for a malfunctioning device on your network, or a properly functioning device at a neighbors house (no more than a house or two away). The protocol includes both a source and destination device. If you can use upstart to see the packet, decoding the packet might show which device is transmitting it.
hucker
Active Member
LightenUP:
That is how I would describe it. The lights go off by dimming and sometimes come back sometimes not. (My kids actually have a blast turning them back on for Mom...) I checked out the log and it is hard to tell what is going on since the kids were banging on things while the 'noise' was happening. I see a bunch of all off events being sent which doesn't really make sense as that is NOT a button that was being pressed. It is strange that it has happened twice (Friday, Monday) at almost the exact same time.
I have eliminated the PIM and my home automation box (HVPro) by verifying that the problem still occurs with both PIM's physically unplugged from the power line.
I have an email into SA to see about troubleshooting this...
LightenUP
Active Member
I believe our situations are a little different. I really think mine are re-setting It sounds as if the "all off" commands you saw on the log are what is happening in yours. I would agree with the previous post and change the Network ID. Also by default some links come embedded as 0% if the configuration isn't erased during setup. I would make sure the links are 100% unless you know specifically you want a 0% and make sure your switches are not set to transmit rocker if pressed. This could be a switch in another room transmitting 241 throughout causing all devices to respond. Just some guesses for you.
I REALLY NEED HELP WITH MY SITUATION, SO PLEASE CLUE ME IN IF YOU HAVE ANY THEORIES.
I REALLY NEED HELP WITH MY SITUATION, SO PLEASE CLUE ME IN IF YOU HAVE ANY THEORIES.
You might want to check the connections in the breaker box if the affected switches are on a few common circuits. POSSIBLY the connections to a breaker or two are loose or on the neutral buss bar etc. If there is vibration etc (truck, train etc going by) there may be a brief drop out of the voltage causing the switches to cycle off and then back to their last state. A shot in the dark but easy enough to check when you are there.
Yep, saw the same problem with PCS switches, it seems that any large inverter drive, such as a variable speed pool pump or inverter driven A/C unit affects the perfect 60hz wave and the PCS dimmers will flash off and then return to the last level. They will eventually settle down and go back to thier previous level. I found that it had nothing to do with UPB. It had to do with the actual dimmer circuitry. The effect can be alleviated slightly by moving the breakers to the opposite phase and making sure the dimmers don't share common neutrals. The SAI dimmers are MUCH more immune to this behavior. I noticed this flickering when a large Mitsubishi Citi-Multi Heat Pump condensing unit was running. I had to remove 10 PCS switches from this job. Thank god the client just wanted a trial install. Now with the SAI switches, no problems.
Get a scope and check that wave. If you can set the scope up to log you will see the powerline noise when the dimmers flash.
Steve
Senior Member
Great, I was considering 'upgrading' some SAI switches to PCS but alas I have a Pentair variable speed pool pump. It sounds like changing to PCS may not be such a great idea,
