HLC for non-HAI UPB lights

[jfitz0807]

I have an Omnipro II with motion sensors, door sensors and with Simply-Automated UPB lights. My contractor configured the lights with UPStart and then put names into PCAccess for each of the units. HAI units 1-55 now correspond to UPB devices 1-55 in UPStart. I have programmed many links into UPStart. I have noticed that when I activate a link via a UPB switch, the HAI Status for the associated Units does not accurately reflect the status of the device. For example, UPB devices 1 & 2 are both set to activate upon receipt of Link 5. When I push the button to activate Link 5, the lights go on, but the HAI shows the status of the devices as Off. I can also activate Units 1 & 2 from the HAI. When I do this, the lights go on and the HAI now shows the status as On.

Why doesn’t the HAI correctly reflect the status of a UPB device when it is activated by a UPB link?

I have seen several posts about using HLC for non-HAI UPB lights. If I understand this right, I can configure the UPB devices as HLC devices and then the HAI will monitor their status. Is this correct? I prefer to have the UPB network activate and deactivate the links because it has a faster reaction time than going through the HAI controller. Will the HAI know or care if I don’t adhere to the HLC Unit numbering room-by-room? Will I have problems with devices 1, 9, 17, etc. which are supposed to be HLC Room Controllers?

As it turns out, I have 21 Rooms configured in UPStart, none of which have more than 7 devices. My OmniPro II can support up to 31 rooms, so I should have the capacity to reconfigure my UPB devices to conform to the HLC convention. For example, the 7 kitchen lights would be HLC Units 2-8, and the 4 living room lights would be HLC Units 10-13 (saving devices 1 and 9 for the non-existent Room Controllers). Would I do this configuration via UPStart and then just name the Units in PCAccess or should I do the configuration using PCAccess and then let UPStart discover the network?

HLC seems to be limited to just 6 scenes per room. Many of my UPB links affect lights in different rooms. If I create UPB links in UPStart, will the HAI correctly see the status of the devices?

 

[Desert_AIP]

The HAI doesn't send the status request for the UPB devices unless it's set up in HLC mode.
So it can't track the light statuses.
This is primarily a problem using scenes since the rocker switches for locally controlled loads can be set to transmit status after the local load changes.
There is no provision in UpStart to transmit status for a remotely changed (via scene link) load.

I wish HAI would allow you to configure status request when it sees a link on the line. You'd proably have to tell it which loads were associated with which links. That may beyond the sophistication of the oeprating system which is why they have the HLC link scheme set up the way they do.

It would be nice to be able to import your UpStart file into PCAccess and have it parse all the load/link combinations automatically, then send status requests to the appropriate loads when it sees a link.

To do this manually should be similar to manually changing the default HLC setup.
You can't do that right now.
Again it may be an address space issue or a performance drain issue that you can;t customize the HLC scheme or create a wholly new scheme.

I don't know enough about the intricate details of programming the operating system at the hardware level to know what constraints thay have to work with.

 

[pete_c]

Here's what I see with PCA access / non-HAI UPB switches configured in HLC mode. I walked up the switches and dimmed them.

Using the HAI HLC posted by JonW spreadsheets to configure your non HLC switches will benefit your setup. Using Upstart / spreadsheets do a bit at a time or just sit down with Upstart and redo all of them.

 

[jfitz0807]

So, If I change all of my UPB Units to HLC, I will have to renumber some of
them since HLC assumes that units 1, 8, 17, etc. are Room Controllers and
thus have no load.  Do I also have to organize my switches so that devices
within a physical room are grouped according to the HLC convention?

Will I have to renumber my UPB Links?  When my devices were all UPB, I had
a program to set a flag when Link 62 was active.  When I changed the
devices associated with that “Room†to HLC, the link name changed in the
program to “Unit 81 OFFâ€.  There is no way to annotate that particular link
in HLC.

If I skip the links for the Room ON and Room OFF HLC scenes in UPStart,
will the Omni care if some of my links activate lights in other rooms?

Should I do the configuration with UPStart or PCAccess?

 

[JonW]

Read all of the attachments and linked articles here: http://kb.homeauto.com/default.asp?id=637 . HLC is nothing more than an ID/LINK allocation scheme. Once you read those docs and understand how it is implemented, it will answer most of your questions.

 

[jfitz0807]

I did read that article and the attached spreadsheets. I'm still not entirely clear and I wanted to double check before I go and rework my 50 or so UPB devices.

The spreadsheets imply that HLC assumes that certain devices are Room Controllers and others are House Status Switches. Can I have regular UPB devices with these IDs, or will HLC complain because, for example, a Room Controller doesn't have a load, but my UPB switch 1 does.

Similarly, some of the links are assumed by HLC to be "Room On" or "Room Off". Can I use these links to do whatever I want or should I avoid using these links in UPStart?

Finally, the HLC scenes seem to be room-by-room. Will HLC care if I have links that affect multiple rooms?

Thanks for the help.

 

[JonW]

I did read that article and the attached spreadsheets. I'm still not entirely clear and I wanted to double check before I go and rework my 50 or so UPB devices.

You will need to rework your 50 or so UPB devices.

The spreadsheets imply that HLC assumes that certain devices are Room Controllers and others are House Status Switches. Can I have regular UPB devices with these IDs, or will HLC complain because, for example, a Room Controller doesn't have a load, but my UPB switch 1 does.

The spreadsheet does not IMPLY - it STATES what devices are room controllers & house status switches. You cannot have regular UPB devices with these ID's. HAI will may not complain, but your status tracking will not work properly.

Similarly, some of the links are assumed by HLC to be "Room On" or "Room Off". Can I use these links to do whatever I want or should I avoid using these links in UPStart?

You cannot use those links for whatever you want - HLC assumes them to be ON and OFF. In UPStart, you can add additional links to the switches that are not allocated elsewhere in your system.

Finally, the HLC scenes seem to be room-by-room. Will HLC care if I have links that affect multiple rooms?

HLC won't care, but it may not track them properly. A little automation code should fix that up though to keep your statuses updated.

 

[jfitz0807]

Thanks for clarifying. I'll give it a shot.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I have a question about HLC Status tracking process.
I don't have access to my equipment right now, so I can't test this.

Does the Omni actually poll status of the units in a room or just assume they are at the levels according to the links received?

i.e.
Room 1
Load Units 2 and 3 (and 4-8)
The links allocated to Room 1 are:
1 - 100%
2 - 0%
3 - 80%
4 - 60%
5 - 40%
6 - 20%

So If I send link 3 (80%) does the Omni send out status requests to units 2 and 3 (and the others in room 1) to verify their actual levels?
Or does it just assume that all units in that room are now at 80%?

I know there is a status time setting, but am not sure if it always sends a status request, or only for the house control links or other non single room links.

 

[JonW]

The Omni requests the status of each device from the same room for which the link was received.

The nice thing about this is that you can actually have the pre-allocated 6 links do anything you want. They don't have to be the 20, 40, 60, etc. as the Omni will poll to get their status. In my living room, I have 100%, 0%, Front Only, Rear Only, 80% all & 50% all.

 

[Desert_AIP]

The Omni requests the status of each device from the same room for which the link was received.

The nice thing about this is that you can actually have the pre-allocated 6 links do anything you want. They don't have to be the 20, 40, 60, etc. as the Omni will poll to get their status. In my living room, I have 100%, 0%, Front Only, Rear Only, 80% all & 50% all.

Thanks JonW, That's exactly what I was hoping for.

Follow up: Does it poll the status when it receives the link from any source? Or just the room controller?
i.e. if a I have a switch outside of Room 1 transmit a "Link 3", will it poll Room 1?

I assume yes, since it has no way to know where the link came from.

Now I can better plan my HLC transition. Thanks again!

 

[JonW]

Follow up: Does it poll the status when it receives the link from any source? Or just the room controller?
i.e. if a I have a switch outside of Room 1 transmit a "Link 3", will it poll Room 1?

I assume yes, since it has no way to know where the link came from.

You know, I'm not sure. I never checked to see if it used the link as the polling identifier for the room or if it used the source address of the switch. I'm not home right now so I can't test it, but I'm curious now as well.

 

[Desert_AIP]

Just a quick bump to see if JonW or anyone else has the answer to this question.

While I'm at it I'll throw in another question.
Under straight UPB I can send an activate or deactivate command.

So with respect to the HLC scheme:

Room 1 Link 1 is ON 100%
Room 1 Link 2 is OFF (ON 0%?)

In PC Access, and from other UPB switches, I can send that activate/deactivate command.
So, if I send Link 1 OFF (deactivate) all the lights WILL go to 0% because they receive that link and deactivate command over the UPB line.
Will the status track correctly? Or will the status show 100% with all the lights actually off?

Thanks.