House Fire - What should i do to wire up my simple ideal system

[ahreno]

Alright. I had a chimney fire and now have a bunch of walls open in my old (1930s) house. I like playing with home automation type things and would like to run wire now. I'm not so sure what I SHOULD run or the base equipment I should get. It sounds like the Elk M1g is something I should be looking at.

Here is what I want to accomplish:

General House:
Basic Security system with no monthly bill. Email / Text notification is ideal since I dont have a landline. I assume there aren't any with skype support. The downstairs of my house is 888sqft. There are three entrances (front / back / french doors) and 8 sets of windows (some are double / tripple windows). I'm really only concerned with monitoring the downstairs entrances... If someone is going to try to get in my upstairs windows... well good luck. I'd like a couple motion detectors (I have pets) and the ability to easily add some cameras down the road when money permits. Each room will have an ethernet jack. Some maybe will have two. I dont see the need for much more than this since everything is wireless now a days anyways. The ethernet jack can also function as a phone jack... i dont have a phone line and never plan to again... but for resale reasons its good to at least have

Living Room / home theater:
My remote is a Harmony One and I will be using that for (hopefully) everything.
I'll have recessed lighting around the perimeter of the room as well as a central main light (separate switches for the two) I'd like to be able to dim them via remote. I also have a remote controlled drop down 108" movie screen that needs to be controlled. I want to be able to hit a button on the harmony (Watch movie) and have the lights dim and the screen lower. There is also a little Mini Split heater / air conditioner in this room that is remote controlled (no thermostat).

Might mount in wall speaker (should i mount two speakers or is one ok?) This will be for ambient music (if i want loud great sounding music i'll use the home theater) and any notifications from security system etc...)

Video distribution in this room. I'll have a LCD on a stand and the movie screen will more than likely drop down in front of it. I'd like to plan forward and have video distribution above fire place as well. A 1080p projector will be mounted on the ceiling and will need HDMI 1.3 to it.

My home stereo equipment:
Denon 3808 receiver
Paradigm titans and center channel.
12" sub
Xbox 360
AppleTv running Boxee (might switch to a mac mini or something that can handle 1080p decoding)

Dining Room:
Dimmable light - just one light in this room (not necessary to be remote controlled but the walls are open so it would be nice).
light switch for porch lights

Kitchen:
Video distribution here as well as audio. This will either be controlled by an out of site modded xbox or I might build a computer for this instead though so its easy to lookup recipes. Probably have a ~20" lcd mounted to the wall. 2 in ceiling speakers for audio. Lights should be dimmable... not necessary to be remote controlled but if it can be done for cheap... why not.

3 bedrooms:
Dimmable lights - not necessary to be remote controlled unless it can be done affordably
in ceiling speakers for audio
video distribution

Bathroom
inceiling audio
distributed video

Outside porch
audio and video distribution

I think thats it... am i missing anything?

I've done A LOT of reading but don't have the time to really dig in and learn too much right now. I have to become somewhat educated on many other areas due to the fire and many large purchases coming up due to it (have to research fireplaces / inserts / stoves as well) and i have my bathroom ripped apart so i'm trying to figure that out as well. So i really appreciate any help i can get!

My main questions:

1. If I get the Elk M1g now how much $ am i looking at if i just want it for security (and ability for it to email / sms / skype me alerts)
2. What sort of cables should i run for video distribution? I dont want a plate on the wall with 2 coax an HDMI Component and composite... I figure Coax and HDMI is fine.
3. My "media closet" is centrally located upstairs and will be easy to run cables where i need. Is it cheaper to run HDMI over cat5 or should i just get some in wall rated HDMI cables from monoprice?
4. what cable should be run to the windows. If one bank of windows has three opening windows (Like this photo) do i need 3 runs of the cable?
5. It would be NICE to have a way to plug an item into the wall in a bedroom or kitchen and be able to utilize the in ceiling speakers. Is this possible? a headphone jack might be easiest since a laptop or ipod would both be able to play through it... anything really.
6. If I get a component matrix switcher to handle most/all the video distribution... how are the inputs selected? Is it remote based (so i'd have to have a remote in each room) or do you have to go press a button on the matrix switcher to change which input is which? a nice web app for this would be nice!
7. What am I not thinking of?

Concerns:
I dont want to have a tremendous amount of switches or wall plates... Wiring should be simple and standard and work if the main brain goes down (if this is possible with hardwired) I don't mind running cat5 or something to the switches if I need... but i don't want to do some proprietary system that won't work if i move in 5 years and take the Elk (or whatever) with me...

I can't spend a tremendous amount of money up front. Like i said... i'd like to get my wiring down and the main brain for things now so it works at almost an entry level. The living room i would like to have up and running though so i can have my home theater complete.

thanks for reading my long rambling post! I truly appreciate any help.

 

[sic0048]

My main questions:

1. If I get the Elk M1g now how much $ am i looking at if i just want it for security (and ability for it to email / sms / skype me alerts)
2. What sort of cables should i run for video distribution? I dont want a plate on the wall with 2 coax an HDMI Component and composite... I figure Coax and HDMI is fine.
3. My "media closet" is centrally located upstairs and will be easy to run cables where i need. Is it cheaper to run HDMI over cat5 or should i just get some in wall rated HDMI cables from monoprice?
4. what cable should be run to the windows. If one bank of windows has three opening windows (Like this photo) do i need 3 runs of the cable?
5. It would be NICE to have a way to plug an item into the wall in a bedroom or kitchen and be able to utilize the in ceiling speakers. Is this possible? a headphone jack might be easiest since a laptop or ipod would both be able to play through it... anything really.
6. If I get a component matrix switcher to handle most/all the video distribution... how are the inputs selected? Is it remote based (so i'd have to have a remote in each room) or do you have to go press a button on the matrix switcher to change which input is which? a nice web app for this would be nice!
7. What am I not thinking of?

1. Packages start at around $640 (although you can find them cheaper). That gives you the basic system, but you still have to buy all the contacts, PIRs, glass breaks, etc.

2. It really depends on how quickly you think you will be using the system. You can certainly run several cat5e wires with the expectation that you'll use baluns in the future. This is pretty inexpensive upfront because cat5e is cheap, but the baluns can be very expensive. HDMI is generally NOT used in a distribute video system because it can still be unreliable. Plus there isn't that many switchers that handle HDMI. Most systems use component for HD distribution. This can be done via cat5e with baluns, or by running precision coaxial cable (this is NOT normal quad shield coaxial cable).

3. It is cheaper to buy the HDMI cables from monoprice if you can get them in the proper lengths. I just bought a 25' CL2 rated HMDI cable from them for about $27. A HDMI balun is probably $100 or more. You can buy a 100' long cable for about $110 or a 75' cable for about $89. So if your lengths would run 100' or less, I'd probably go with the actual HDMI cable.

4. You need a pair of wires for each zone. Most people use 24/2 or 24/4. You have to decide if you want the entire bank of windows to be wired together, or if you want to wire each individual window separately. If you wire them separately, you'll know exactly which window is open. If they are wired together, you'll know it is the bank of windows, but not which specific window. People are probably 50/50 on this issue and there really isn't a right or wrong way to do it.

5. It depends on the audio system you choose, but many can be set up like this. Personally I would run a pair of precision coaxial cables to these locations and terminate them with RCA plugs. I'd also run at least 1 cat5e wire to each of these locations. You never know how future devices will be hooked up.

6. It depends on the switcher. Most have local control (ie a face panel that you could go to and select the outputs). But most also can be controlled via RS-232 which in most home settings means hooking it up to a serial port on your computer and controlling it via some software on the computer. Depending on how robust this software is, you may be able to control it via IR remotes, keypads, touchscreens, or web based interfaces.

7. You always think of something else after it is all done.

 

[sic0048]

The other thing to keep in mind is that it is better to run too much wire than not enough. I know you said you want to keep the "outlet clutter" down to a minimum. But don't let that stop you from running a lot of wire. You can always leave the wires unterminated behind the wall plate in case you ever need to have an extra wire or two in the future.

So you said you don't want more than perhaps a HDMI and coaxial outlet showing. I can tell you that if that is all you actually wire for, you are going to be disappointed in the future. I'd run 3-4 cat5e wires in addition to these two wires at a minimum. But you can leave them sitting in the walls for future use and not have to see a bunch of cat5 plugs in the wall if you don't want.

 

[ahreno]

Thanks for the quick reply...

1. My windows are old (1930 i bet) and have individual panes... I dont think glass break detection is much use since i'd need one on each pane i figure. I'm content with something that knows if the window is open or closed.

2. I think I don't really understand the whole video & audio distribution thing. If i have It might not even be something I want / need. 95% of what i watch is downloaded tv/movies or streamed from something online. I have cable tv because i paid the cable guy $50... I have direcTv for NFL sunday ticket... which is only used in one room. It seems like it would be easier and cheaper for me to just put a modded xbox in each room and provide it with an ethernet port... then it can hit my network storage and stream anything i want. Or use a mini computer running Boxee or XBMC so it can stream Hulu... what do i gain / lose by doing the "video distribution"? It would be nice in each bedroom & kitchen if there was an INPUT so an ipod or laptop could be fed in and played through the inceiling speakers. But again... i dont know how source selection works for that. if you run component instead of HDMI that means you have to run something else for sound?

I guess that my thoughts when it came to video distribution was being able to hit a remote and have the tv (and audio) change between multiple sources (cable tv / directv / media comptuer) it sounds like that may not really be the case though.

3. HDMI makes so much more sense to me since it's one cable and can deliver 5.1 sound as well.

4. I dont care to know which individual window is open. So i would just run (1) 24/4 or 24/2 to each bank of windows? and one to the door? The keypads i assume run off cat5e or cat6? what about power for the keypads... do they need an actual outlet? I dont need anything fancy like touchscreen...

5. Is precision coax different than normal coax? I dont see it on monoprice but i might be looking for something different.
5a. Anyone recommend a good (affordable) home audio thing (i have no clue what i'm looking for) that will allow me to plug in a laptop / ipod type device and play the music through the inceiling speakers? I need it to be able to send different audio to different rooms (each room listen to its own source type of deal)

6. I'm not sure video distribution is something i'm really looking for (see above) i will probably run a bunch of extra cat5 just in case though. as well as a couple hdmi cables...

7. (a new one) What should i use for controlling my lighting? Specifically in the living room. Is OnQ ALC my best bet in terms of control / functions / ease of use & wiring?

 

[Neurorad]

Sounds like you need a good, cheap low-voltage installer guy (or girl). Shop around, call all custom installers in the area. Ask them for [free] advice. One of them will know someone who will run cable in the evening/on weekends, off the clock, for $40/hour. Do the research, buy your own materials. Make sure you speak with the installer before you buy the materials for him to install. Help him with the install, when the time comes. Do a little at a time. He may be able to get you some materials cheaper than you can get them (cheaper local distributor prices on some components/parts).

Maybe I'm a little off on this one, but I don't think so.

 

[broconne]

1. My windows are old (1930 i bet) and have individual panes... I dont think glass break detection is much use since i'd need one on each pane i figure. I'm content with something that knows if the window is open or closed.

Glass break detectors are not attached to the glass itself. They are basically a microphone that listens for the specific frequency of glass breaking. The good ones can discern between window glass and like a drink glass breaking. Here is one kind: Bosch Glass Break Detector

4. I dont care to know which individual window is open. So i would just run (1) 24/4 or 24/2 to each bank of windows? and one to the door? The keypads i assume run off cat5e or cat6? what about power for the keypads... do they need an actual outlet? I dont need anything fancy like touchscreen...

The windows would be wired together in series, that is every window would have a detector in it, but there would only be one run back from that bank of windows to the security panel.

7. (a new one) What should i use for controlling my lighting? Specifically in the living room. Is OnQ ALC my best bet in terms of control / functions / ease of use & wiring?

People are of different minds on this. I am pre-wiring for OnQ/ALC because I am building a new house and can run cat5 to all light switches. Some people are happy with powerline control like UPB.

 

[beelzerob]

Alright. I had a chimney fire and now have a bunch of walls open in my old (1930s) house.

Talk about making the best of a situation! I hope everyone was ok and it was only some property damage? We've got a chimney, so there's kind of always that fear, but I think the newer construction has come a long way. I think they're at the point now where it's not a big deal if they do burn (or so I've heard).

Anyway, whatever brought you here, welcome!

 

[Lagerhead]

Creosote buildup in the chimney is extremely dangerous, and burns hot when it ignites.

As most of us have old construction, there is no substitute for regular chimney cleaning by a chimney sweep -- every year, if you use your fireplace a lot --, using hardwoods that are well-seasoned, and providing good ventilation for the fire (both for chimney health and for CO2 safety).

And, no cooking in the fireplace unless it's designed for it.

 

[ahreno]

No one was hurt and only some of my toys (tv / projector) were damaged. so i get to rebuild and am trying to figure out how to easily get some automation and in wall wiring done now.

 

[beelzerob]

Well, glad to hear it, and I agree with the idea. I find myself LOOKING for reasons to open up the walls so that I can then take advantage of it for HA purposes. Of course, those ideas never seem to pass the wife test...

 

[ahreno]

I just wish I had the knowledge to do it... or someone I could talk to (even on MSN / Yahoo / AIM) so i could run my ideas past them.

 

[mustangcoupe]

I just wish I had the knowledge to do it... or someone I could talk to (even on MSN / Yahoo / AIM) so i could run my ideas past them.

Come to the CT Chatroom... http://www.cocoontech.com/index.php?act=announce&id=1

someone is usually there (not to say they can help but can try...)