How about Elk? Alarm system + Security Camera + Home Automation

[hoosier_engineer]

I am new to this, and have researched for probably 150 hrs, and hope someone out there can help. I need:
1. An alarm system
2. Video recording, probably to a Personal Computer
3. Home automation

I wired my house with door sensors, and ran CAT5e wire to places I want acoustic glass break and motion sensors, and keypads. Everything is 'home run' back to a central location where I will install the alarm control panel and PC. I have a couple of X-10 FloodCams I would like to install in a pre-wired (120 only) electrical box, at the rear of the house, and I would like to get a Pan, Tilt, and Zoom video camera which I can mount under the eaves at the front of my house, possibly something that may have infrared illumination for night vision. I have a pile of X-10 switches and dimmers laying around, too (admit it, so do you!).

In addition to the normal alarm functions, I would like to use the alarm system motion sensors as controls into a home automation system (while armed 'stay'). I would like to be able to use these sensors, as well as some outside wireless ones (I can provide 120 VAC but no signaling wire) to control camera position, and trigger video capture. I would like to be able to capture this video on a PC as an 'endless loop'. I would also like to log any motion detector triggers on the PC for time correlation back to the video capture. I have a television capture program called SageTV (which works wonderfully) that lets me convey live or captured video from one PC to another (my livingroom Plasma) over an Ethernet connection. I don't think it can support security video capture, but I would like this feature.

I may also want to add additional home automation capabilities at a later time.

If you are still reading this, you must be a very patient, helpful person. Getting to the point, here is what I have found, and some questions.

After looking at various panels, it seems the Elk M1Gold may be a good choice, but I can find no information on their website about the home automation capabilites, other than a few examples. Does anybody know what the syntax of their 'Rules' is? It looks like the words in capitals are keywords, but I don't have a clue as to the syntax of the language, or if they support flags ('remembered' conditions which can later be used in a trigger). They seem to be pretty proud of it, though... It does support X-10, but I can't figure out how (or if) the X-10 commands are mapped to Zones or Outputs (relays). The Elk seems to have analog inputs, so maybe it can handle Dim levels (we're talking variables here), does anybody know where I can find out about this? This panel has me so excited... Also, can I use more than one type of home automation system at the same time, such as X-10 and Zwave?

I haven't found any security panels that capture video, and I have some pieces laying around that I can turn into a PC, so I think this is my best option. I have an Nvidia 6600GT video card that I think does video capture, so I was wondering if I can take commands from the panel, control a camera, and trigger video recording (preferrably frame capture as well as continuous). A SageTV interface would be great.

Is the Elk a good choice? Is there a bettere one? How about a (reasonably cheap) camera/software that talks to a security panel? Or even an idea of were I should go... for more advice, that is.

 

[WayneW]

If you are still reading this, you must be a very patient, helpful person. Getting to the point, here is what I have found, and some questions.

After looking at various panels, it seems the Elk M1Gold may be a good choice, but I can find no information on their website about the home automation capabilites, other than a few examples. Does anybody know what the syntax of their 'Rules' is? It looks like the words in capitals are keywords, but I don't have a clue as to the syntax of the language, or if they support flags ('remembered' conditions which can later be used in a trigger). They seem to be pretty proud of it, though... It does support X-10, but I can't figure out how (or if) the X-10 commands are mapped to Zones or Outputs (relays). The Elk seems to have analog inputs, so maybe it can handle Dim levels (we're talking variables here), does anybody know where I can find out about this? This panel has me so excited... Also, can I use more than one type of home automation system at the same time, such as X-10 and Zwave?

I haven't found any security panels that capture video, and I have some pieces laying around that I can turn into a PC, so I think this is my best option. I have an Nvidia 6600GT video card that I think does video capture, so I was wondering if I can take commands from the panel, control a camera, and trigger video recording (preferrably frame capture as well as continuous). A SageTV interface would be great.

Is the Elk a good choice? Is there a bettere one? How about a (reasonably cheap) camera/software that talks to a security panel? Or even an idea of were I should go... for more advice, that is.

Welcome to CocoonTech! The Elk M1 is a great choice. Yes, you can mix lighting methods, such as X-10 and Z-wave. You can download a demo version of ElkRP and you can explore all the automation and rules capabilities. The lighting controls are separate from the zones & outputs, so you have great flexibility. Yes, it does X-10 dimming. Video capture is best done by PC or dedicated DVR.

 

[Steve]

Agreed. There are also some training videos that may help illustrate the rules, etc.

 

[sharby]

Mr Newguy,

The ELK M1G is an awesome security system. However, the automation is still being developed on the "out of the box" offering. You can do full automation through a software package such as HomeSeer or PowerHome(my choice) that runs on a PC somewhere on a network. I've developed full automation rules in PowerHome and am developing UPB capability so that you have lighting automation with "Intelligent Check" verification. X-10 is old, unreliable, 1 way, and cheap.

Hope this helps you understand your options.

-=*Sharby*=-

 

[hoosier_engineer]

If you are still reading this, you must be a very patient, helpful person. Getting to the point, here is what I have found, and some questions.

After looking at various panels, it seems the Elk M1Gold may be a good choice, but I can find no information on their website about the home automation capabilites, other than a few examples. Does anybody know what the syntax of their 'Rules' is? It looks like the words in capitals are keywords, but I don't have a clue as to the syntax of the language, or if they support flags ('remembered' conditions which can later be used in a trigger). They seem to be pretty proud of it, though... It does support X-10, but I can't figure out how (or if) the X-10 commands are mapped to Zones or Outputs (relays). The Elk seems to have analog inputs, so maybe it can handle Dim levels (we're talking variables here), does anybody know where I can find out about this? This panel has me so excited... Also, can I use more than one type of home automation system at the same time, such as X-10 and Zwave?

I haven't found any security panels that capture video, and I have some pieces laying around that I can turn into a PC, so I think this is my best option. I have an Nvidia 6600GT video card that I think does video capture, so I was wondering if I can take commands from the panel, control a camera, and trigger video recording (preferrably frame capture as well as continuous). A SageTV interface would be great.

Is the Elk a good choice? Is there a bettere one? How about a (reasonably cheap) camera/software that talks to a security panel? Or even an idea of were I should go... for more advice, that is.

Welcome to CocoonTech! The Elk M1 is a great choice. Yes, you can mix lighting methods, such as X-10 and Z-wave. You can download a demo version of ElkRP and you can explore all the automation and rules capabilities. The lighting controls are separate from the zones & outputs, so you have great flexibility. Yes, it does X-10 dimming. Video capture is best done by PC or dedicated DVR.

I found the RP software on the Elkproducts.com website, but you need to have already purchased a panel, or be an Elk Dealer to access it. They also charge for technical support, probably to keep people like me from bugging them too much. Is there another place to download the software?

 

[hoosier_engineer]

Mr Newguy,

The ELK M1G is an awesome security system. However, the automation is still being developed on the "out of the box" offering. You can do full automation through a software package such as HomeSeer or PowerHome(my choice) that runs on a PC somewhere on a network. I've developed full automation rules in PowerHome and am developing UPB capability so that you have lighting automation with "Intelligent Check" verification. X-10 is old, unreliable, 1 way, and cheap.

Hope this helps you understand your options.

-=*Sharby*=-

I looked briefly at the HomeSeer software, I haven't looked at PowerHome yet. Do these programs support conditional video capture and some kind of indexed playback, or need to search further? It looks like X-10 has iWatchout software, which I suspect requires ActiveHome Pro. It looks like there are limitations, in that only a single video feed is supported. I suppose I could build up a video multiplexer/amplifier which I could control from the security panel outputs. The nice thing about SageTV is that it supports multiple video capture cards concurrently (which can be purchased from Nvidia or AMD/ATI pretty cheap), and I can remotely watch recorded or live video from the livingroom PC which I have connected to the TV. It works with a handheld remote control. Also, the PC video cards aren't just limited to NTSC (1080i [HDTV] is the future, I think you can buy camcorders now that will support it). I'll bet that AMD is working on a graphics processor/CPU combo that can compress high definition video in real time. The security panel manufacturers need to be all over this like white on rice. Maybe somebody has, but I haven't found them yet. It probably wouldn't take the SageTV guys long to add a security feature, I would buy it. Apparently it is compatible with a control program called Girder, which should allow serial ASCII commands from the alarm panel to control the application.

 

[WayneW]

I found the RP software on the Elkproducts.com website, but you need to have already purchased a panel, or be an Elk Dealer to access it. They also charge for technical support, probably to keep people like me from bugging them too much. Is there another place to download the software?

Elk allows DIYers to sign up as dealers and have access to the dealer web page. I have never heard of Elk charging anybody for their wonderful support. It appears that Elk has taken down the demo version of ElkRP, but I found it with a quick Google search.

http://www.basshome.com/elkrp_remote_progr..._84363_prd1.htm
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/ELK-Cross...M1GSYS4/manual/

 

[WayneW]

The security panel manufacturers need to be all over this like white on rice. Maybe somebody has, but I haven't found them yet.

Security panels are totally different in design and concept from a DVR that I doubt you will see any overlap. There are already plenty of pro quality DVRs that interface with security panels to trigger alarms when motion is seen or to record when an a zone is tripped.

 

[Steve]

I have never heard of Elk charging anybody for their wonderful support.

Times are changing:

Elk Products Technical Support is for Authorized Professional Installers and Distributors. All other support is available through a fee based service.

And on the point of software as was mentioned. Sure, you can find some very good software packages that can meet your automation needs. If all you wanted was automation this is a decent way to go. But in your requirements you listed #1 as an alarm system. That right there imho puts you into an Elk. You can certainly look at software later as a complement to the Elk but if you want Security AND Automation, Elk should still be at the top of your list.

Video recording should probably be a separate system but you probably want the ability to integrate it into your security or automation. Like to trigger recording on motion, display it on automation screens, etc.

 

[hoosier_engineer]

I found the RP software on the Elkproducts.com website, but you need to have already purchased a panel, or be an Elk Dealer to access it. They also charge for technical support, probably to keep people like me from bugging them too much. Is there another place to download the software?

Elk allows DIYers to sign up as dealers and have access to the dealer web page. I have never heard of Elk charging anybody for their wonderful support. It appears that Elk has taken down the demo version of ElkRP, but I found it with a quick Google search.

http://www.basshome.com/elkrp_remote_progr..._84363_prd1.htm
http://www.smarthomeusa.com/Shop/ELK-Cross...M1GSYS4/manual/

I have spent quite some time at both of those sites, I don't know how I missed it. I will give it a try today. Thanks greatly for your your help.

 

[hoosier_engineer]

I have never heard of Elk charging anybody for their wonderful support.

Times are changing:

Elk Products Technical Support is for Authorized Professional Installers and Distributors. All other support is available through a fee based service.

And on the point of software as was mentioned. Sure, you can find some very good software packages that can meet your automation needs. If all you wanted was automation this is a decent way to go. But in your requirements you listed #1 as an alarm system. That right there imho puts you into an Elk. You can certainly look at software later as a complement to the Elk but if you want Security AND Automation, Elk should still be at the top of your list.

Video recording should probably be a separate system but you probably want the ability to integrate it into your security or automation. Like to trigger recording on motion, display it on automation screens, etc.

You are exactly right, and I was coming to the same conclusion about worring about the software later, buf it would be nice to know that when I bought the stuff, it would play together. I have spent LOTS of time digging out the little info that I have, and I am not looking forward to doing the same for the video capture part, but maybe this weekend...

I really appreciate the quick response!

 

[WayneW]

You are exactly right, and I was coming to the same conclusion about worring about the software later, buf it would be nice to know that when I bought the stuff, it would play together.

The Elk M1 is such a popular item that most major HA software supports it, either natively or via some sort of plug-in or addon. So you have multiple software options. The major hardware alternative would be an HAI panel, but again, that is supported by many HA software products and doesn't do video recording.

 

[hoosier_engineer]

You are exactly right, and I was coming to the same conclusion about worring about the software later, buf it would be nice to know that when I bought the stuff, it would play together.

The Elk M1 is such a popular item that most major HA software supports it, either natively or via some sort of plug-in or addon. So you have multiple software options. The major hardware alternative would be an HAI panel, but again, that is supported by many HA software products and doesn't do video recording.

I tried downloading the software from some of Elk's 'partner manufacturers', immediate crash and burn. Or, 'if you need to ask, you can't afford it', or 'third party plug-ins required (maybe haven't been checked out since Win '95?)'. I hoped maybe somebody had been through the process. I suspect there is a resonable answer out there, but I doubt anybody has actually described or documented it. Probably I need some capture software compatible with Girder, but who knows. In any case, on with the research!

 

[WayneW]

I have never heard of Elk charging anybody for their wonderful support.

Times are changing:

Elk Products Technical Support is for Authorized Professional Installers and Distributors. All other support is available through a fee based service.

I don't know if that is a new Elk policy or if they enforce that policy, but I still haven't heard of any DIYers being charged yet. But that is a good reason to purchase your Elk from a reputable dealer who offers support after the sale. I am very happy with AutomatedOutlet.com, I hear others are happy with SmartHomeUSA.com and there are others that frequent this forum. sorry about the dead link for the demo software, I didn't realize they just linked back to the Elk site. Contact a reseller and they should be able to hook you up with the RP demo. Or maybe Spanky will explain why they dropped the demo download?

 

[hoosier_engineer]

I have never heard of Elk charging anybody for their wonderful support.

Times are changing:

Elk Products Technical Support is for Authorized Professional Installers and Distributors. All other support is available through a fee based service.

I don't know if that is a new Elk policy or if they enforce that policy, but I still haven't heard of any DIYers being charged yet. But that is a good reason to purchase your Elk from a reputable dealer who offers support after the sale. I am very happy with AutomatedOutlet.com, I hear others are happy with SmartHomeUSA.com and there are others that frequent this forum. sorry about the dead link for the demo software, I didn't realize they just linked back to the Elk site. Contact a reseller and they should be able to hook you up with the RP demo. Or maybe Spanky will explain why they dropped the demo download?

?? I downloaded something, a .EXE, I will try it tonight. Thanks for the leads, I don't really want to 'test' a bunch of dealers to find out if they are knowledgable enough to answer more than simple questions. The Elk documentation is not quite enough to tell me what the capabilities of the system are, and I am afraid I may buy from somebody who just reads the manual to me. Maybe, if this download works, I will have my answers. Maybe I will try to find a dealer that has a generous return policy.