how should I wire for lighting and HA, to keep options open

[capall]

Hi all,
I'm remodeling my 1500sq ft, 3 bedroom house in San Francisco, back to the studs, and am thinking about getting some type of HA controller or hub such as an ELk, Omni pro, homekit, homeseer , CQC, loxone etc next year. It will be non-dealer installed whatever solution I choose.
 
As some of you  pointed out in some of my recent posts, I have some planning to do, ...however
 
I have the kitchen, bathroom and adjoining bedroom back to the studs so before they get Sheetrocked I need to get them wired up for whatever type of HA system I go with. I will run cat5 to each room, but given that I have yet to choose my controller and Sheetrock is going up soon, what is the best way to add wiring for lighting (and anything else I've not thought about yet) so that when I get around to choosing my light switches etc I'll have what is needed in place?
 
thanks
 
 
 

 

[Dean Roddey]

The Elk/Omni is separate from something like CQC. They aren't either/or, but things you'd use together typically. I always argue that it's best to separate hardware from automation system, since then they can be evolved separately as needed. And it means that the hardware works on its own separate from the automation system, which is an important concern if you move. You can revert the hardware back to a standalone system that doesn't involve any automation.
 
So something like an Elk or Omni with CQC layered over them fits into that scenario perfectly. Another option is Radio RA2, which you can also DIY and which CQC supports very well. And, in that case, it's much more of a one stop shopping and and integrated hardware layer. The only odd man out there is security, so you could do a standalone security system like the DSC IT-100, or just get a basic Elk and use it purely for the security capabilities perhaps (but it leaves you open for some more wired sensors and such down the road.)

 

[capall]

Thanks Dean,
Yes, I've done quite a bit of research and understand how CQC can layer over the ELK and Omnipro, and become the overall controller. Depending on much much control I want to achieve, this is one option I've thought about , then the others, such as homekit and possibly loxone are more app based, which have their pros and cons.
 
So given I have yet to choose, I just need to make sure I get something in the wall to work with whatever solution I go with.

 

[ano]

Thanks Dean,
Yes, I've done quite a bit of research and understand how CQC can layer over the ELK and Omnipro, and become the overall controller. Depending on much much control I want to achieve, this is one option I've thought about , then the others, such as homekit and possibly loxone are more app based, which have their pros and cons.
 
So given I have yet to choose, I just need to make sure I get something in the wall to work with whatever solution I go with.

Don't worry a whole lot about putting in the switches yet.  Most HA systems are wireless (Wi-Fi, Zigbee, Z-Wave) or they go over the house wiring (UPB).  In either case, just install DEEP boxes, leave lots of room inside, and make sure you have a neutral wire at every location.  Plastic boxes are probably preferred over metal if you do go wireless.  Otherwise there is no reason to wire any differently than normal. If fact you shouldn't so when you sell your house, you can put it back to "normal."

 

[capall]

thanks.....so there's no light switches that use Ethernet?

 

[ano]

thanks.....so there's no light switches that use Ethernet?

Wi-Fi. If you mean wired Ethernet, No.

 

[mikefamig]

thanks.....so there's no light switches that use Ethernet?

There are switches and other devices that use the existing AC line wires to communicate with a control panel and with each other. Google "UPB lighting".
 
Mike.

 

[capall]

thanks guys,
yes, wired Ethernet I intended.
 
 
 

Wi-Fi. If you mean wired Ethernet,

 

[capall]

Thanks guys,
 
so other than making sure I have Ethernet jacks in each room where i need them, there's nothing else I need to wire before the sheet rock goes up, correct?
 
thanks

 

[mikefamig]

Are both cable TV and IPTV available in your area? You may want to install RG cable as well as CAT cable to each TV location and maybe speaker wires?
 
Mike.

 

[mikefamig]

You are planning an ethernet jack in each room but where will they all come together? I put a 16 port switch in my basement as a central point that all devices are fed from. Then I have one cat cable from that switch to the 4 port gateway/router upstairs. that leaves three ports in the gateway free for any devices that deserve a dedicated port ie my Elk security system.
 
Mike.

 

[LarrylLix]

As per Mike above, I use almost the same setup, with few smaller switches placed around the house.
 
This is mainly because I didn't run enough Ethernet cables when I built my home.

 

[capall]

thanks guys,
Yes, my plan is to run probably 2 cat5 cables (1 being a backup) from each room to the basement downstairs and use a switch (ie 16 port). Then use a 4 port switch in each location if needed.
 
at the moment, this is just the kitchen, bathroom and bedroom, so I think RG cable is probably not needed. But I'll run that to the living room when i do that space next year.
 
some of you have mentioned in older posts about using a conduit to run the cat5 cables, is still a recommendation and if so can someone suggest what this would be ?
 
and what type of Ethernet cables are we currently using?..cat5, 5e, 6 , 7 ?? no gaming happening, just a couple of netflix HD streams.
 
thanks
Derek

 

[ano]

thanks guys,
Yes, my plan is to run probably 2 cat5 cables (1 being a backup) from each room to the basement downstairs and use a switch (ie 16 port). Then use a 4 port switch in each location if needed.
 
at the moment, this is just the kitchen, bathroom and bedroom, so I think RG cable is probably not needed. But I'll run that to the living room when i do that space next year.
 
some of you have mentioned in older posts about using a conduit to run the cat5 cables, is still a recommendation and if so can someone suggest what this would be ?
 
and what type of Ethernet cables are we currently using?..cat5, 5e, 6 , 7 ?? no gaming happening, just a couple of netflix HD streams.
 
thanks
Derek

Its funny because no matter the year, everyone building a house tries to run the "state-of-the-art" wiring for the time, but the reality is, technology continues to move on and in 10 years or less, whatever you run will likely be obsolete. I'd recommend high-speed plasma fusion cabling, but it likely won't be invented until 2028.  You could use fiber-optic cable. That is what many commercial users are starting to use.
 
I myself have close to 45 Wi-Fi devices on my network, and they have run flawlessly. I use wired in only a few situations.  I have rooms with 10 or more devices in them. I can't imagine having a switch in each room and running wires to all my devices. It seems so 1998, but to each his own. 

 

[Dean Roddey]

I would argue that, in general, Ethernet/Wifi is appropriate for the large bits and that something else should be used for the devices themselves. All of the major lighting system vendors obviously agree since none of them use Ethernet/Wifi or are likely to probably. And it's gigantic overkill for something like a light bulb anyway. 
 
A proprietary wired or wireless protocol is best, IMO. It's the right size hammer for the nails being nailed. The network is the right sized hammer for automation servers, media servers, touch screen clients, media streaming clients, etc... 
 
And, it means you still have a 'traditional' system under the hood should you re-sell. Having a wired system would also likely apply in this case, though a professional level product like Radio RA2 would likely not be an issue. Nothing consumer oriented would be as likely to go over as well, and worst case you might end up having to rip it all out and put something more traditional back in order to sell it.
 
I'm not sure if Caseta would be considered sufficient enough on the resell front or not, though it would be fine for you to use for your own automation purposes, for a smaller to medium sized home. You can use two parallel Caseta systems to get more module capability, but there again that's something that might not go over so well on the resell front since (at the actual hardware level) they wouldn't talk to each other I don't think. They would only be linked via the automation system that sits on top of them presumably.