How to ensure power supply is sufficient?

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Senior Member
I'm slowly assembling my M1G alarm system and I have a few simple questions regarding how to power it properly.

I plan on installing:
- three keypads on the databus
- five speakers on output 1 (two ELK-73 Echo plus three ELK-SP12F)
- one ELK-SP35 Siren on output 2
- one strobe on output 3
- one exterior siren on an output of a relay board

The exterior siren will be powered by an external power supply, namely one of the three outputs of an ELK-412K. My concern is that the five speakers, interior siren, three keypads, and strobe are all sourced by by the M1G's primary power supply (wall wart plus battery) and will overtax it. Is the primary power supply capable of handling the mentioned load?

Is it possible to augment the primary supply using one of the outputs of the ELK-412K? In other words, can I connect one of the 412k's 12VDC outputs directly to the M1G's 12VDC input? In effect, I'll be adding the 412K in parallel with the M1G's battery. Is this a normal practice or will this cause problems?

What other solutions are there to ensure the primary supply is not overloaded?
 
I would review the ELK documentation for the current requirements and specifications for each product. For example you have listed the ELK-SP35 as a siren when it is only an interior speaker.
 
... you have listed the ELK-SP35 as a siren when it is only an interior speaker.

I used the wrong part number; it should be the ELK-SS36.

I think I can estimate the current drain using the specs for the keypads, siren, strobe, etc. However, I'm not sure how to calculate what the five speakers will draw. I'd also like to know if I can parallel the ELK-412K with the M1G's battery ... so I'm hoping someone will provide me with some guidance.
 
Here's what I like to do on a large or medium sized system. I pull as much power as possible away from the M1 internal power supply. I like the 4 amp ELK supply. I use the 4 amp supply with a PD9HC power distribution module or two. I use sirens rather than speakers on output 2 (can't use speakers for a UL install). I use a relay on output 2 and power the sirens from the auxiliary power supply (you do lose supervision). I have had many an over current warning if I don't do it this way. Unfortunately you usually don't discover it until you go into a full alarm condition. I don't parallel the supplies but I tie the negatives together. I feed the data bus hub from the auxiliary power supply, that way it feeds the keypads, relays, wireless, etc.
 
Here's what I like to do on a large or medium sized system. I pull as much power as possible away from the M1 internal power supply. I like the 4 amp ELK supply. I use the 4 amp supply with a PD9HC power distribution module or two. I use sirens rather than speakers on output 2 (can't use speakers for a UL install). I use a relay on output 2 and power the sirens from the auxiliary power supply (you do lose supervision). I have had many an over current warning if I don't do it this way. Unfortunately you usually don't discover it until you go into a full alarm condition. I don't parallel the supplies but I tie the negatives together. I feed the data bus hub from the auxiliary power supply, that way it feeds the keypads, relays, wireless, etc.

OK, I understand part of it; you have all sirens draw their power from the external supply. However, I don't understand how tying the "negatives together" works. Do you mean you connect the external supply's -12VDC to the M1G's -12VDC battery terminal? Also, you connect the ext. supply's 12VDC to the data bus hub?

Yep, I'm confused ...
 
Rather than explain the tying the negatives together, do a quick search and you will see lots of posts regarding that issue. Suffice it to say that if you want everything to work properly, i.e. data busses, you need the negatives to be tied. I feed the data bus hub's + and - voltage from the aux. power supply. If you're really confused PM me and I'll give you my telephone number.
 
Rather than explain the tying the negatives together, do a quick search and you will see lots of posts regarding that issue. Suffice it to say that if you want everything to work properly, i.e. data busses, you need the negatives to be tied. I feed the data bus hub's + and - voltage from the aux. power supply. If you're really confused PM me and I'll give you my telephone number.

I may take you up on that offer.

I did search other threads and found references to tying together the negative rail of all power supplies (to provide a common reference). Most postings suggested using an external supply to source heavy loads whenever possible. The suggested route was to use ELK's power distribution module (PD9 or PD9HC) in order to limit the available current to each load. This was also the recommended solution (by you, I believe) to source the databus hub.

I could not find any guidance on the current drain presented by five speakers (sounding an alarm).
 
I could not find any guidance on the current drain presented by five speakers (sounding an alarm).
Spanky may be able to help there. To give you a point of reference when using sirens, one ELK-45 basic siren will over current the M1 by itself. The siren draws 1.2 amps on its own. I haven't found the millimiser wiring to help either.
 
I found a posting by Spanky about adding an ELK-P624 to augment the M1's main battery (i.e. added in parallel). However, he indicated this configuration would prevent the M1 from detecting a failing main battery during its periodic tests. He went on to describe how a relay and a rule could be used to disconnect the P624 before the dyamic battery test. This is interesting stuff but a little more complicated than I had hoped for.

I've got the ELK-412K (and will probably need to get a PD9/PD9HC) but I'd like to hear from fellow cocooners about how they power their multiple speakers and sirens (and keypads/expansion boards/etc). Nothing is wired up yet so I can adopt everyone's best practices.
 
I could not find any guidance on the current drain presented by five speakers (sounding an alarm).
To give you a point of reference when using sirens, one ELK-45 basic siren will over current the M1 by itself. The siren draws 1.2 amps on its own. I haven't found the millimiser wiring to help either.

Is this true? One Elk-45 siren draws more current than the M1 can source? What kind of siren does Elk expect us to use? The current limitation of the M1 is becoming a major hurdle in my alarm system. I really don't want to pull everything, especially the keypads, off the core power, but it looks like that is what I will have to do. Elk in your next design, how about a little more juice.
 
I could not find any guidance on the current drain presented by five speakers (sounding an alarm).
To give you a point of reference when using sirens, one ELK-45 basic siren will over current the M1 by itself. The siren draws 1.2 amps on its own. I haven't found the millimiser wiring to help either.

Is this true? One Elk-45 siren draws more current than the M1 can source? What kind of siren does Elk expect us to use? The current limitation of the M1 is becoming a major hurdle in my alarm system. I really don't want to pull everything, especially the keypads, off the core power, but it looks like that is what I will have to do. Elk in your next design, how about a little more juice.


Actually the M1 has more power available than many other panels on the market.
 
The ELK-45 predates the M1. It was being used by other panels before the M1. I very rarely plan an M1 installation that doesn't include an auxiliary power supply or two. Adding auxiliary power supplies not only takes the load off of the M1 but with 8AH battery backups it gives you a long backup time in case of a power failure.
 
The ELK-45 predates the M1. It was being used by other panels before the M1. I very rarely plan an M1 installation that doesn't include an auxiliary power supply or two. Adding auxiliary power supplies not only takes the load off of the M1 but with 8AH battery backups it gives you a long backup time in case of a power failure.

I put two 28 inch cans in the basement, one 28 inch can on the main level, and a 14 inch can on the top floor. All have there own power supply with battery backup. They all also have a zone expander and some have a relay board. It took time to get to this level but I am winding up with a really great system that is very expandable and somewhat future proof.
 
I am responding to my own post bacause of a little irony:

At the moment, I have 8 motion detectors, 4 glass break detectors, 3 keypads, 1 input expander, an Elk-45 siren, and the Elk water shutoff valve all connected to the M1 panel without an auxillary power supply. I have yet to receive an overcurrent warning, even at full alarm. However, I am in the process of specifying parts for a 2.5 amp supervised, auxillary power supply. Here's the pricey little doodad from Altronix plus transformer, battery and power distribution module. I didn't go with the Elk-412 because I don't need 4 amps, but more importantly, I want a supervised board. It's amazing how the system keeps growing. As a side note, I initially installed a single 14" can, then changed it to a 28", and finally added another 28" can. Now I am contemplating putting another can in for the auxillary power supply.
 
I am responding to my own post bacause of a little irony:

At the moment, I have 8 motion detectors, 4 glass break detectors, 3 keypads, 1 input expander, an Elk-45 siren, and the Elk water shutoff valve all connected to the M1 panel without an auxillary power supply. I have yet to receive an overcurrent warning, even at full alarm. However, I am in the process of specifying parts for a 2.5 amp supervised, auxillary power supply. Here's the pricey little doodad from Altronix plus transformer, battery and power distribution module. I didn't go with the Elk-412 because I don't need 4 amps, but more importantly, I want a supervised board. It's amazing how the system keeps growing. As a side note, I initially installed a single 14" can, then changed it to a 28", and finally added another 28" can. Now I am contemplating putting another can in for the auxillary power supply.

Cort , thats an interesting piece. I have often wondered how I could upgrade ANY system with more power. So, how does that work? I only see one output on that board. Do you take that to an expander board? I dont have an elk but surely I can do something similiar with an On-Q/HAI control panel?

Thanks
 
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