how to find out if the house is occupied

[Desert_AIP]

Thanks so much for all the great replies. I tried the code below and when the flag occupied is on the Unocupied flag goes off and verse visa. But the flag doesn’t increment when a motion NOT READY am I missing something?

 
The problem may be the motions are going NOT READY then back to SECURE so quickly that the flag is incrementing then decrementing in the same code pass or the very next pass so you don't actually see the change occurring.
 
As mentioned above ocupancy sensors are a better sensor here.
 
My occupancy sensors are latching, so once they trip they stay NOT READY for a selectable period of time, in most cases 1.5 min.
Think of it as a kind of electronic switch debouncer.
 
 
As for the status of the alarm, I would use that as a trigger and a conditional so that the motion sensors check the alarm status before they change the flag.
If you only use the alram status as a trigger, it will only occur when there is the transition from armed to disarmed and vice versa.

 

[emck]

what is an "occupancy sensors are latching"

 

[fcwilt]

Thank you for the clarification regards the implied ORs.

 

[fcwilt]

It would seem to me that the state of the security system in this case is just a condition and would not serve a useful purpose as a trigger.

 

[Desert_AIP]

what is an "occupancy sensors are latching"

 
I am using Sensor Switch occupancy sensors, both CM-9R and CM-9PDT.
They have a latching feature, meaning when they detect motion they stay NOT READY for a period of time after motion has ceased.
They remain "latched" into the tripped state.

The R version has an internal relay that connects to a zone, the PDT version uses dual technology of IR and microphones.
The non-relay versions have a low voltage out input to the zones.
Sensor switch makes a myriad of sensors for this application.

 

[emck]

Ha I see do you have an example of one of those sensors? and do they replace the motion sensors or do you add them to the room.

 

[Desert_AIP]

See my edited post above for models.
 
I have them as independent zones.
You don't want to use ocupancy sensors for alarm functions, they are too sensitive and you would get a lot of false alarms.
This is the same reason security motion sensors are poor for automation functions, they aren't sensitive enough to detect minor movement.

 

[picta]

It is a very interesting discussion, however for the purpose of occupancy detection HAI provides a very simple way to do so without need for expensive occupancy sensors. By installing inexpensive motion sensors that are not used for security you can track occupancy very effectively.
 
I also have flags defined for every room and keep track of individual room occupancies. Once all occupancy flags are off the house occupancy will go to off. You can define different delay times for different rooms and also different conditions and times of the day (example: longer time at night in the bedroom to allow for decreased motion activity during sleep). The occupancy sensors have hard set latching times.
 
I can use the Bedroom Occupancy to turn off bedroom lights when no motion is detected for 5 minutes during the day, but still will have the house status as occupied during the night:
 
WHEN Bedroom Motion is Secure
AND IF DARK
Then Bedroom Occupancy On for 20 minutes
 
WHEN Bedroom Motion is Secure
AND IF Light
Then Bedroom Occupancy On for 5 minutes
 
Another example to account for less motion when you are on the couch watching movies:
 
WHEN Theater Motion is Secure
AND IF TV is OFF
Then Theater Occupancy On for 5 minutes
 
WHEN Theater Motion is Secure
AND IF TV is ON
Then Theater Occupancy On for 20 minutes

 

[fcwilt]

After you have used a true occupancy detector you will see the difference. Yes you can use motion detectors but they depend on motion. Remain still and they go inactive. An occupancy sensor (a good one anyways) does NOT depend on motion.

 

[picta]

I agree that the occupancy sensors are the best way to track occupancy, but they are not cheap. I have two sensor switches, but I wanted to track every room and motion sensors do the job reasonably well.

 

[fcwilt]

When considering costs I always take into account how much I have invested in the structure. Then others things seem pretty cheap.

 

[Desert_AIP]

I got a dozen Sensor Switch CM9 (no relay) for $10 each on e-bay.

I think I paid $20 for the PDT versions.

Shop around

 

[picta]

Do you know of any good occupancy sensors that can be wall mounted? We have sloped ceilings.

 

[emck]

thanks for the help, it looks like I am going to have to find some occupancy sensors. I really appreciate peoples help