How to train myself on "correct" HV wiring?

[IVB]

I started another thread on simple high voltage wiring but that quickly devolved into me complaining. I want to start a new thread on how I can educate myself on what wiring *should* look like, various codes, etc.
 
Basically, now that I'm paying close attention to the HV wiring in my 102 year old house, i'm realizing that both the prior owners & the electricians that I hired in the past took a lot of shortcuts, ran wiring either attached to pipes or stapled/bent funny ways. Plus there's a lot of knob & tube which is starting to degrade. Given that I'm going to live in this house for the next 30-40 years, I don't mind investing some $$ to clean it up and bring it into compliance with current code. I'll have to do this in stages as it could easily be $15K-$25K, and it'll take me 1-2 years to afford all that.
 
I'd like to learn what the 'right' way is to run wires, what 'good' looks like. I have every intention of hiring someone to do the work, but I want to be in a position to provide specific guidance about what I'm asking them to do or clean up, and be educated when they push back with a "better" idea.
 
How do new electricians start? Are there specific books they read? It can't all be on-the-job learning about NEC. Google returns a bazillions results, not sure what is real and what is silly.

 

[JonW]

There really isn't anything hard about home electrical wiring that you can't learn in a short period of time.  Honestly, I'd pick up a couple of books on wiring and NEC and do some studying.  If you have a really old breaker box in the house, you should look at having that upgraded first. You can then have the old box tied to just a couple of large breakers in the new box.  You can then slowly start swapping out circuits and adding new ones into the new box until such time that the old box can be removed.  Do it in stages and do as much of it yourself as you can and it won't cost you that much over the period of time. Maybe just hire an electrician for the initial panel install and do the rest yourself.

 

[pete_c]

Old fashioned here I prefer to utilize conduit verus romex.  Have a quick read on the benefits of using one over another.
 
Typically the last piece of what I have done electrically has been just fishing the electrical cables.  That said putting in the conduit, bending et al while labor intensive is easy and relatively safe if you don't put any wires in the conduit as you start to upgrade in little baby steps.
 
You can start by just installing a new fuse panel with nothing in it adjacent to your old one. 
 
Run all new conduit to it in stages for replacing all of your electrical.  Don't touch anything live at all while you are doing it.
 
You can get granular with it if you DIY it.  Today my family room / media room has some 4-5 separate circuits and fuses. 

 

[Del91574]

Pete, you're close enough to Chi-town, so I'll give a pass to you and conduit...even AC/MC/BX.
 
The best way to start would be to look into what cycle NEC your local is on...that would be the first item....while not a "how to" it clearly sets forth the minimums for an installation. Then a couple of good books about wiring (and google for oddballs, like 4 way switching....etc). Don't make up your own wiring rules, colors, etc.
 
Generally, a "right and tight" is how most electricians perform their work....right angles, tight radius bends in the cable (within reason) and not too much slack and slop in the panels. You do, however, need to leave at least 6" free length at the box, but I usually use a pair of linesman pliers or my cutters for lenght (8/9" OAL) as a rule of thumb. Plan out your runs, measuring, etc. before you start. A chalk line and a yard stick work wonders...even "story poles" for items like outlets and switch boxes if you really don't want to measure and have the house match. 
 
If you're going to be retrofitting a decent amount of boxes, get a rotozip or oscillating tool like a multimaster. A jigsaw or sawzall is simply asking for trouble if you have lath and plaster. You can get templates with built in levels for the box cutouts, but if you're not doing that many or take your time, it's really not necessary. Learn the old addage of measure twice cut once....and there'll be mistakes or miscalculations, but if you're not sure, small exploratory can be done. Always start with the smallest hole you can work with....it's easier to patch if needed, not to mention, if you can't get a snake either up/down the walls where you're trying before you cut...you're going to be committed once you make the hole in the finished surface.
 
Since you're looking at K+T and updating, the best, IMHO as suggested, would be to get a fresh panel mounted somewhere code compliant and get set up for the cutover. Keep in mind, piecemealing a rewire is going to be difficult to keep everything up and running 100% while cutting between old and new, but with enough planning, it can be minimized. If you must keep items running, plan on buying a lot of 4" or 4 11/16" boxes so you can refeed a room/circuit/area with K+T, then as you set up the runs to be pulled to the box locations either above or below, you would kill the K+T in the field and then pull in the new field wiring and then tie the new work to the new feed you just ran. Not the way I'd do it, but it's "legal".

 

[IVB]

Thx. Quick question about conduit: Since I've learned that romex inside conduit is frowned upon, wouldn't that insinuate putting a bunch of THHN inside it? And if I do that, how do I keep the 3 THHN for each run colocated, wouldn't it just end up being a mess inside? or do I zip tie it every few feet as I feed it in?
 
In general, I'm a fan of conduit, if only from an aesthetics perspective.
 
My house has an upgraded panel, 90% of the wiring is newer, but fugly. I'll take a pic tonight of various bits and post. 

 

[Del91574]

Conduit under a house would be THWN, not THHN.... Since you said mini breakers...that sounds like the load center is too small if you need to go to half breakers,unless that was before the last batch of work.
 
When doing multiple pulls, if you don't have enough reels to do it at the same time, you would just walk off enough to pull it all in at the same time. Green is always going to be ground. Line and neutral can vary, but neutral would be identified by taping the exposed portion inside the junction either grey or white.
 
Tape the last foot or two for the 3-4 conductors needed for that circuit, just bundling, not the entire length. Maintain the small taped bundle inside the box/enclosure, etc. then connect as you need to.

 

[neillt]

There is a book called Electrical Wiring - Residential, ISBN 978-1-4354-9826-6.
 
It's been great, does a very good job explaining lots of the code... and it's an easy read.
 
There is an electronic PDF out there as well, if you look in certain places.....

 

[tmbrown97]

Of course, the whole code books can get pretty long and complicate to read - so there are some cheater's guides that I've seen even local inspectors carry that have the simple qualifications taken from hundreds of pages to a couple of key things to look for and qualifications - that can help because it shows what the inspectors will look for despite what may be allowed... of course reading more detail as necessary will come up in special circumstances.
 
I got my local inspectors thinking when I wanted to do something they weren't thrilled about but was totally legal and was really my best option given circumstances - but for that I had to get pretty deep into the local code on the matter.  MikeHolt seems to be the forum that comes up in a lot of searches on electrical issues, and he has a ton of training info available.  In CA, you could also look at some of the C10 license study materials as well.

 

[neillt]

Yeah, that's what I really like about the book above, it's broken down into each kind of circuit or scenario, so if you are going to install new lights, or do something with a 3-way, or install a standby generator you just go to that section.

 

[IVB]

I'll get that book, thanks. Anyone see any issue with me just orphaning the current K&T wiring in the wall and fishing new wire up?  I only have perhaps 10 switches running on K&T, bu enough to be a PITA if I have to tear down the wall and yank it.

 

[Del91574]

No. Abandon in place. Once dead, cut it back to the furthest accessable point.
 
Don't know your plans for the existing boxes, but going with the assumption you're going to leave those in place and then  fish new to them instead of spending time removing and replacing with either plastic old work or metal with madison clips. Either way, pick up a couple of pairs of heavy duty hemostats, 1 straight, 1 curved. You'll thank me later.

 

[IVB]

By boxes, do you mean the boxes in the wall with the actual switch or the junction box?   Assuming electric box for light switch, I was thinking about leaving in place, but now I'm wondering how to physically do that. Those hemostats sound like a good idea. I'm thinking that I have to cut perhaps 18"-24" away from the box to grab the wire, then somehow maneuver into place grabbing the hemostat on the other side. 

 

[tmbrown97]

Isn't it considered best practice when cutting old wires like that to twist/cap the pair together where it's cut - in case anyone should ever mistakenly appy power to those wires again? That's what I've always seen done... Though I have no idea if K+T changed anything.

 

[IVB]

Ok, here's some pics:
 
Here's the current romex, basically every run is stapled to one of the joists. In some cases the cables overlap or are run weird ways.
 

 
 
This is the really bizarre one: One of the K&T circuits is fed by a romex and just twist-tied. No chance is this up to code, cleaning this up is what I'm faced with.
 

 
 
And, for the heck of it, here's another view from just under my low voltage run. I have it running down one side, the high voltage is all on the other side.
 

 

[neillt]

Yeah those wire nuts just hanging out are most certainly not to code.  All wire run splices must be inside junction boxes.