How to train myself on "correct" HV wiring?

[IVB]

What is "a lot" of cabling?  My main raceway has something like 30-50 runs, with perhaps another 10-15 low priority ones that I should do at some point.
 
Also, the jhooks you linked to seem like they're only perhaps 1" wide max at the bottom. Is that really much better than the hanging hooks I used that are perhaps 1/3" at base? I trust your opinion, just surprised that such a minor extra width results in much better quality.

Cable tray and ladder rack, by the time you put in all the fittings and consider the bends, changes in elevation, etc. is going to be the most expensive and complex method to support LV cabling. Usually it's used in locations where there is a LOT of cabling or the need to pull in a LOT of future cabling is going to be needed...or in the case of some larger buildings, a way to pull the cabling in without disturbing staff, as much as that is possible.

 

[tmbrown97]

The difference in those hooks is that they do spread the pressure point over something a bit wider, then taper out - no sharp edges... on a little hangar hook it's somewhat of a really blunt point - at the very center of the hook is where the pressure on the cable would be the highest and the more cables you stack on top, the more weight you have pushing down on that one narrow point.  It's quite likely that you'll never have problems with a small number of cables but I think the point is, as a matter of practice, there are better ways.  Then again, I've seen MUCH worse, usually done by "pros"!

 

[Del91574]

50-100 runs total for LV systems would be a small residential LV install. When you have a bundle about 4-6" in diameter, that would be the first time I would consider a raceway system. Usually a tray would be chosen if multiple building systems are being forced through the same pathway...like BAS, security, CCTV, networking, etc. and then the systems are usually kept separate within the raceway, via dividers and cable management.
 
A J hook has a bearing point of about 1-2" typically. Look at how the cable lays in them in comparison to installing over a blunt object, say a bridle ring, drive ring, etc. Those tend to guillotine the wire over time. Usually the largest error that people make is to size accordingly and overfill the smaller sizes because they don't look full visually. Cable tray or ladders are not without their own pitfalls. usually in the transition from the tray to connected equipment. The basic part is a cable tray is going to cost a lot more and be overkill for what it's really being used for.
 
FYI, J hook specs and architectuals here: http://www.erico.com/public/library/engineering/fixing/electrical/catxx.pdf
 
It's no different (not intending as a bash or criticism in your case) as a HO stating they wanted all their electrical in a basement run in conduit, then converted to BX/AC/MC to it's termination point at the box. It's doable, but the amount you're going to spend in materials and labor to install it will cost far more than a normal NM and staple method, though both are acceptable. In Pete C's case, he lives in an area of the country where NM is not accepted as a wiring method in a residence, so it's either armored or conduit with very specific rules, and this is very much an exception to the standard practice, dating back to the union days and a lot of other history items.
 
In your particular case, assuming Caddy brand (the most common in my area) you'd be using a minimum of a CAT 32 hook just for your existing runs. That's a 2" loop.
 
And yes, I've seen pros do it equally well the same amount as poorly. Usually the best examples to look at would be the big box stores without a ceiling...the orange/blue improvement stores, Costco, Best Buy....look to see if they're running through the trusses or actually supported and then you should be able to judge the quality of the install. Usually they vary significantly.

 

[Neurorad]

In the building where I work, category cables are commonly retrofitted, above the drop ceiling.  There is a tray, but it's overflowing, and they stopped using it for new runs.
 
It is really an ungodly mess, but I understand there isn't an easy fix.  I also understand, after some years now of contemplation, there isn't a need to fix it.

 

[Del91574]

That is true, especially in older buildings that have slipped through the cracks. Push a ceiling pad up and it looks like a spider made a plastic web up there with all the cable plants over the years. Hopefully the guys that were doing the work at least supported the cabling and didn't lay it directly on the grid.
 
There's one of the reasons why the NEC is requiring any abandoned or unused cabling to be removed during any install/retrofit. The loophole they created unfortunately within the code allows the disaster to continue as long as the wiring is  tagged on both ends, then it can be left in place.
 
There's no fault to having a tray filled, the only problem is what happens with all the cabling that is going to be retrofitted or added now that pathway is filled.....

 

[drvnbysound]

Well since ceiling tiles were brought up, I figured this one would be good to share. I took this picture a while back while at a job... the tile was removed to run electrical to the new wall mounted A/C unit that was being installed.
 
Let me know if you guys recognize any code violations ;-)

 

[Del91574]

I don't have enough room to write.
 
The plug strips with their flex cords and the connected equipment are a nice touch. The transformers are compliant however, just not how they're installed.

 

[drvnbysound]

Yeah, I counted (3) power strips up there and that was just under one tile...

 

[tmbrown97]

:throwup:

 

[pete_c]

Question:
 
A couple of years ago I was involved in an enterprise multioffice upgrade of their access card stuff trying to centralize both software and methodologies of card access.
 
That said various regional local alarm companies were subcontracted by the "office" managers for said upgrade; in Texas, east coast and in the midwest.
 
In a quickie multioffice tour with an "eye" towards looking at the infrastructure upgrades noticed one office put the power supplies and used power strips in a couple of areas in the open to power the doors. I could have tripped over the power cables disconnecting the door power for access cards.
 
In the midwest I used a secure closet and had electricians run power to the card access panel. (and alarm).
 
At the time I said to the office manager (who had contracted said alarm company) that I was not happy with what I saw and therefore recommended not to deal with said regional alarm company. 
 
I was also looking for an enterprise multioffice contract relating to security. 
 
Would this methodology (using power strips and individual transformers of connecting power to card access readers be OK?

 

[tmbrown97]

The wiring should be hidden in a locked closet, and preferably hooked to some sort of UPS... 
 
I've seen the closet where my current building's security is housed  (we only lease a suite, not the whole building here) and it's a room with about 30 little 14" boxes... all their transformers are plugged into power strips - one for each box, but inside each box is a battery backup.  Every suite makes extensive use of electrified handsets and card readers plus a partitioned security system, and this is where they put all the brains. 
 
I would never accept seeing any portion of the wiring except for maybe an armored cable to connect the door to the frame - anything else would absolutely not pass.

 

[pete_c]

Yup; here in the midwest I personally managed two of these endeavors two buildings / offices.  The larger of the two was for some 2000 folks and the smaller housed only about 500 folks but was actually larger than the first building.
 
That said I put all of the card access /security services in VM's on one box here in the midwest sort of managing the card access stuff from the Midwest.  It worked well.  I set up only 4 offices in this manner; two in the midwest and two in Texas.  The path though was to integrate another large office into the "fold".  This one was in London and larger than any one particular office. London's security and card access setup though was better than what I had seen doing my multioffice tours.
 
That and I was heading toward multioffice environment management with this endeavor.

 

[Del91574]

Pete,
 
You didn't mention what flavor of access control you have installed, but I'm assuming it's relatively small. Power strips are a cheap way out in the case where the contractor doesn't want to install more HV outlets or their license (if they have any) does not cover such. Usually, it's a cheap way out, but if the spec and the contract doesn't cover such....well, it's a mutual error and lack of detail for the one specifying and the one installing.
 
It's very common to install a localized power supply to the door, etc. In some ways, it does away with the voltage drop, and with some hardware (Von Duprin) you really don't have a choice due to the inrush of current. More details would need to be known.
 
I don't like the practice of installing 100 power supplies for an install, it shows poor planning or the flip side, a project planner that is running the money so tight they only install the bare bones or don't install a supply with enough capacity to run multiple doors. Then it further adds complexity if fire drops are needed (but not with a handset usually) Then again, system topology comes into play. We just turned over a space to the state that had a room with about 80 individual cans and supplies, each with a battery. Very nice change order in the works to modify to match to match some of their other buildings.
 
One of the closets within the building. 96 doors here alone.
 
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