ideas for long distance controls

1) - Spanky (Elk Engineer) chimed in at one point regarding wireless conversion of the RS485 Bus and basically said the Elk was too sensitive to the delays caused by the conversion to/from wireless. I believe he indicated that they'd tested a few options with little success. A search would reveal more.

2) - With fiber, it's funny... for some reason it's really expensive if you go out looking for it; yet, if you're in the right industries, there are people around just trying to give it away. I have spools of it just laying around, and have family that has spools and spools on the shelf that they're dying to give away; you'd just need to pay a pro commercial installer to come terminate/test it; maybe a couple hundred bucks max. If you *can* go all IP, there's your best bet. Maybe post something in the Craigslist "wanted" area a few times - see if someone will give you a smoking deal on a spool.
 
It's starting to look more and more like wireless will not be a solution, but I wanted to share that while not "pretty" two of these antennas, with low power Wi-Fi radios, can shoot well over a mile and aren't extremely expensive:

http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=20593

To be secure with it, use them with point-to-point bridging devices (not access points), enable MAC filtering, and add encryption. With all the added "security", data rate's should still be 20+Mbps.

Also, depending on the wireless environment in your area, you may want to look at 5.8GHz antennas, such as:

http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=20600
 
Do you have the ability to subscribe to an internet providor at both locations? Then use the internet to connect your main house to your gate via the myriad of home automation stuff designed to allow remote monitoring/control over the internet. It will take a lot of months of paying a second internet access bill before you hit the cost of trenching/running wire. Plus then you don't have to worry about inadvertant damage to the wire.
 
As suggested above, maybe remote internet is an option to explore. If you have cellular, you could use something like a Cradlepoint device.
 
Point to point wireless was mentioned, so I thought I would mention these units. For $80, they are very affordable especially for what they deliver. Near line of sight is required though. They have other products that are more focused, but I know people who use these to bridge networks between houses. Ubiquiti Nanostation
 
It seems clear to me that wifi is the way to go. The only limitation is the Elk devices and there are plenty of ways to work around that. While I could install a wireless server + high-gain antenna in the shed by the gate, I might first experiment with direct wireless devices (ala Global Cache, wifi cams, et al) using better or amplified antennas, along with a high-gain antenna at the house. This is really no different from using wifi on your laptop 1/2 mile away from your wireless server. I believe this should be very reliable if I have good directional antennas. I'll conduct some practical experiments to test the limitations and let you know how it goes.

I don't want another Internet provider. Indeed, the ISP is by far the most unreliable component of a decent wifi system so I would not want to rely on the Internet component for anything important and will probably firewall that wifi server for anything except the known devices. No Internet or anything except known subnets, ports, etc.
 
Just did a couple of similar installs for a customers. We didn't do any Camera or Intercom but we did do sensors for open/close status and also control for open/close.

UPB signals work fine over that distance. We used an HAI I/O Module at the gate which handled both status and output contacts for control. I know one of them for sure is around 3000 feet from Gate to the house. The other was fairly close but same hookup. Of course this all depends on whether or not they are pulling power for the gate from the same source as the house.
 
Just did a couple of similar installs for a customers. We didn't do any Camera or Intercom but we did do sensors for open/close status and also control for open/close.

UPB signals work fine over that distance. We used an HAI I/O Module at the gate which handled both status and output contacts for control. I know one of them for sure is around 3000 feet from Gate to the house. The other was fairly close but same hookup. Of course this all depends on whether or not they are pulling power for the gate from the same source as the house.

I just want to confirm but this isn't an HAI device correct? I believe it is a simply automated? If it is an HAI module can you provide the part number?

Thanks,

Neil
 
Hi. I am brainstorming ways to add some sensors and controls to the property entrance gate area of my mother's house. I am planning on installing some HA there later this summer but have a specific problem with distance.

What I have:
House 2200' away from the gate.
Power at the gate and in a small pumphouse by the gate.
Electric powered gate

What I would like:
2 way audio/intercom
camera(s)
gate open/close control (most important requirement)
motion or other vehicle sensor
possible lighting control

The problem, of course, is the distance. Unless someone knows of a reasonably priced ethernet transmitter/receiver, I was planning on running conduit and cable. Distance limitations apply here too. Fiber optic is an option, but would cost nearly $1000 for cable alone. Is coax an option? If I run cable I will probably run 24v but 120v is an option if I need it for signal amplification or whatever along the way.

Thanks for any suggestions,

Armand

Have you already tested if X10 and/or UPB-Devices are working via the existing powerline over this distance?
Actual X10-Devices are more sensitive and reliable than in the past. UPB has even more reach.

BSR idea with MURS would be an option if you need only 3 or 4 wires to signal ... but:
gatecontroll, driveway controll, intercom, cameras etc all together wireless comes rather expensive.

WLAN is also a possibility, especialy because it is encryptable. But then you cannot use the RS485-Bus of the ELK-system (and similar systems), but must use network-switches for signaling and similar interfaces for voice etc. This depends also from the device-prices of your complete solution.

My solution: buried cable requires only a onetime investment. And offers the widest spectrum for future developmants. On the other side: what was the best solution in the past, is not necessarily the best for the future.

Renting a small trencher at Home Depot or Lowes or your local Dealer is around $45 for a day.
And then you are burrying a 3/4" PVC (schedule40) pipe, filled with 2 CAT5e and 1 CAT6e cables.
So you have 1 Networkcable, one in Reserve and one used for a 485-Bus (for the ELK-system) a phoneline or whatever.
Maybe Belkins has special cables, requiring only a 1/2" PVC-pipe.

If the pipe is 1 feet deep (that means under the frostlimit) and glued on all connections, it will become awfull reliable.
(trench all, put down all cables, string them with PVC to the middle from both sides, glue them, burry them)
I have it on my farm in 4 cases but for shorter distances:
for power from the meter-pole to the house (100 ft),
to connect the pumphouse with the house (100 ft),
along the meadow for sprinkler-valve-controll and power (400 ft),
along the meadow for reserve:1 CAT5e+ power (300 ft).
A longer line (or chain of lines) with more than 2000 ft -along all my property- may come the next years.
I never had any issue since 2 decades, is this luck only?

It all depends on prices and worktime.
So the only thing you realy need is a sharp pencil.
And what are your final requirements on signal and communication-channels.
 
Hi. I am brainstorming ways to add some sensors and controls to the property entrance gate area of my mother's house. I am planning on installing some HA there later this summer but have a specific problem with distance.

What I have:
House 2200' away from the gate.
Power at the gate and in a small pumphouse by the gate.
Electric powered gate

What I would like:
2 way audio/intercom
camera(s)
gate open/close control (most important requirement)
motion or other vehicle sensor
possible lighting control

The problem, of course, is the distance. Unless someone knows of a reasonably priced ethernet transmitter/receiver, I was planning on running conduit and cable. Distance limitations apply here too. Fiber optic is an option, but would cost nearly $1000 for cable alone. Is coax an option? If I run cable I will probably run 24v but 120v is an option if I need it for signal amplification or whatever along the way.

Thanks for any suggestions,

Armand

Have you already tested if X10 and/or UPB-Devices are working via the existing powerline over this distance?
Actual X10-Devices are more sensitive and reliable than in the past. UPB has even more reach.

BSR idea with MURS would be an option if you need only 3 or 4 wires to signal ... but:
gatecontroll, driveway controll, intercom, cameras etc all together wireless comes rather expensive.

WLAN is also a possibility, especialy because it is encryptable. But then you cannot use the RS485-Bus of the ELK-system (and similar systems), but must use network-switches for signaling and similar interfaces for voice etc. This depends also from the device-prices of your complete solution.

My solution: buried cable requires only a onetime investment. And offers the widest spectrum for future developmants. On the other side: what was the best solution in the past, is not necessarily the best for the future.

Renting a small trencher at Home Depot or Lowes or your local Dealer is around $45 for a day.
And then you are burrying a 3/4" PVC (schedule40) pipe, filled with 2 CAT5e and 1 CAT6e cables.
So you have 1 Networkcable, one in Reserve and one used for a 485-Bus (for the ELK-system) a phoneline or whatever.
Maybe Belkins has special cables, requiring only a 1/2" PVC-pipe.

If the pipe is 1 feet deep (that means under the frostlimit) and glued on all connections, it will become awfull reliable.
(trench all, put down all cables, string them with PVC to the middle from both sides, glue them, burry them)
I have it on my farm in 4 cases but for shorter distances:
for power from the meter-pole to the house (100 ft),
to connect the pumphouse with the house (100 ft),
along the meadow for sprinkler-valve-controll and power (400 ft),
along the meadow for reserve:1 CAT5e+ power (300 ft).
A longer line (or chain of lines) with more than 2000 ft -along all my property- may come the next years.
I never had any issue since 2 decades, is this luck only?

It all depends on prices and worktime.
So the only thing you realy need is a sharp pencil.
And what are your final requirements on signal and communication-channels.

Why not use wireless ethernet AP device like this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16833168057
People use it in locations over 1/2 miles range (~2500 ft). If you configured it properly, you can have camera run through it, if you need to have control (on/off control output and TTL input) you could also hook up a CAI's WebControl at the gate location, so that you can remotely control the gate over the ethernet.
 
I gotta say - screw the wireless... That's prone to all kinds of vulnerabilities that can make it less secure, too slow, and unreliable.

How about an ethernet extender? These things allow you to extend ethernet up to a mile or so over copper. Some are even POE compatible, self-powering the remote end; others can extend voice lines as well; all kinds of options (check out http://www.ethernetextender.com/ethernet-e...nsion-kits.php)

Run the trencher and drop in some PVC, run some Cat5 through it, and you should have a solution you never have to think about again. It doesn't seem overly expensive as well.

That, and the idea about the UPB out to the remote end could really round things out. With Ethernet for cameras and communications; upb for inputs/outputs, and power for whatever else - it seems like there's nothing you couldn't do.
 
I gotta say - screw the wireless... That's prone to all kinds of vulnerabilities that can make it less secure, too slow, and unreliable.

How about an ethernet extender? These things allow you to extend ethernet up to a mile or so over copper. Some are even POE compatible, self-powering the remote end; others can extend voice lines as well; all kinds of options (check out http://www.ethernetextender.com/ethernet-e...nsion-kits.php)

Run the trencher and drop in some PVC, run some Cat5 through it, and you should have a solution you never have to think about again. It doesn't seem overly expensive as well.

That, and the idea about the UPB out to the remote end could really round things out. With Ethernet for cameras and communications; upb for inputs/outputs, and power for whatever else - it seems like there's nothing you couldn't do.

If you really like high security, you will need to run optical cable, so that even under electronics warfare, the communiction can not be broken through radiation. But for most of us, it is a lot simpler to run wifi with WEP or other security on. People trying to steal your wifi network connection in your neighborhood is a lot less than people try to break into your router/firewall from Internet side. I check my firewall log, almost two to three hackers in each and every second try to break into my home network from Internet side. Of course, I have static IP addresses that is probably attracting more hackers.

Through wifi, camera and all other devices can hook up easily. Cost is a lot lower than trench.
 
Just remember, when the zombies come to attack you (and your home), once they hit you with an EMP all of your electronics will be down anyway :)
 
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