I'm soooo pissed at SmartHome! :angry:

[Mr Spock]

I'm posting this on every site I can find...

I called SH today. It seems the 7 year warranty is only valid on SOME switches!

Mine were purchased in 2004, they are x10 only predating the ICON and Insteon support. They are NOT covered under the extended warranty. If the microswitches fail (as mine are starting to do) you are screwed. Obviously I'm really pissed off right now. I installed these 2384W switches throughout my house (~25). Three have failed and a couple more are starting to fail.

I'm going to complain on every message board I can find. They have lost a customer for life. Let this be a warning to everyone contemplating buying SmartHome designed products.

Does anyone know where to find replacement microswitch parts?

P.S A thank you to Digger for offering to give me his old switchlincs to use for parts.

 

[Digger]

I'm posting this on every site I can find...

I called SH today. It seems the 7 year warranty is only valid on SOME switches!

Mine were purchased in 2004, they are x10 only predating the ICON and Insteon support. They are NOT covered under the extended warranty. If the microswitches fail (as mine are starting to do) you are screwed. Obviously I'm really pissed off right now. I installed these 2384W switches throughout my house (~25). Three have failed and a couple more are starting to fail.

I'm going to complain on every message board I can find. They have lost a customer for life. Let this be a warning to everyone contemplating buying SmartHome designed products.

Does anyone know where to find replacement microswitch parts?

P.S A thank you to Digger for offering to give me his old switchlincs to use for parts.

I am giving you brand new tact switches.... not sure if they fit the older switches but they do fit the new ones.

 

[dougmeredith]

I'm not totally clear on what you are upset about. Did they misrepresent the warranty when you bought your switches? If so, a report to the BBB might be in order. Showing SmartHome your evidence of misrepresentation along with a draft of your letter to the BBB may be enough to change their minds.

Doug

 

[Kevin L]

I'm not totally clear on what you are upset about. Did they misrepresent the warranty when you bought your switches? If so, a report to the BBB might be in order. Showing SmartHome your evidence of misrepresentation along with a draft of your letter to the BBB may be enough to change their minds.

Doug

I'd like to know that, too. I'm not saying this is the case here, but many times people get upset when they find they misunderstood something rather than it being misrepresented. I'd also be very careful about spreading your dissatisfaction with a company unless you have proof to back the allegations. There have been successful lawsuits when companies are libeled.

OTOH, if SH did misrepresent the warranty, then Doug has a good idea in contacting the BBB.

Kevin

 

[Herdfan]

I'm not totally clear on what you are upset about. Did they misrepresent the warranty when you bought your switches?

Not wanting to speak for the OP, but from reading his post, it seems he is upset because SH extended the warranty on Insteon based switches based on bad microswitches, but did not extend the warranty on X-10 based switches that are exhibiting the same issues.

An example would be a car company extending the warranty on a certain part failure on 2005 and later model year cars, but not extending it for a similar problem on 2004 and earlier model years. I get him being upset, but I don't think it is a misrepresentation.

 

[Digger]

I "think" that SH did not extend the warranty for the same problem on the X-10 devices because they dont make them anymore and want people to "buy more" Insteon devices. So even though they admitted to the defective tact switch in the Insteon devices (after tremendous pressure from customers) they dont want to admit to the same component (most likely and we will soon find out after the OP looks) failure going back even further then they admitted to already.

Instead of pissing off their customers they could offer them the Insteon version and the customer can use them in X-10 mode. Then if the WAF is low because of the different "look" of the switch I would think that it is then the customers responsiblity to "buy more" to make them match. At least that way SH would have offerred a reasonable solution (not perfect but that is not possible in this case it seems). I think it would actually increase Insteon sales if this situation was addressed correctly as it would be showing SH stands behind their products and by putting some Insteon devices into the hands of X-10 users might encourage them to upgrade (increasing sales).

Now that it seems that SH is NOT handling this well in the eyes of customer(s) they may instead now go with X-10 from another mfg or UPB or Zwave etc. and SH loses big time in the long run.

Bad long term decision in my opinion. But that seems to be just typical for SH.

 

[electron]

Is this really a widespread issue like the Insteon microswitch issue? I understand this sucks, and really do feel bad, but the X10 SwitchLinc switches were extremely popular and have been around for a long time. If this was a widespread issue, I would think more people would have reported this problem by now. You can't expect a manufacturer to provide lifetime warranty on every product they sell, especially when the product in question is this complex. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Digger]

Is this really a widespread issue like the Insteon microswitch issue? I understand this sucks, and really do feel bad, but the X10 SwitchLinc switches were extremely popular and have been around for a long time. If this was a widespread issue, I would think more people would have reported this problem by now. You can't expect a manufacturer to provide lifetime warranty on every product they sell, especially when the product in question is this complex. Just my 2 cents.

Over a year ago when I was researching the Insteon tact switch problem I found a bunch of people complaining about the X-10 switches for the same problem. I have to see if I can look them up again later.

I think it was towards the end of the product manufacturing that they had the problem but I dont remember for sure.

The tact switches should last for decades even with heavy use so for them to die in less than 10 or so years is a problem that never should have happened. Look at the rating of any low end tact switch. They are rated 300K cycles or so for the cheapest crap you can get. Some are nearly a million cycles but they get pricey (maybe 10 cents a piece at high volumes if I remember correctly) Figure a switch is turned on or off 50 times a day max. That would be 16.5 years. Now who really turns their switches on that many times? So lets say 25 times a day. That would be 33 years etc.

Example below of a decent switch. This switch when bought in quantities of 100 would be 26 cents each. In quantities of 10K would probably be less than 10 cents each.

Tactile Momentary Switches

Ideal for applications such as audio, office and communications equipment, measuring instruments, TVs, VCRs, etc.
Flux-tight base structure allows automatic soldering of the tactile switches onto a PC board

SPST Normally Open
Through hole mount
6mm x 6mm
Switching Capacity: 24VDC 50mA
Permissible Load: 5VDC 1mA
Service Life: 1,000,000 minimum
Switch Height x Pitch: 4.3 x 6.5 mm
Operating Force: 260G
Orange Flat Plunger

Full Datasheet B3F-1005

Manufactured by: OMRON
Part number: B3F-1005

 

[BLH]

I believe the standard warranty was two years for Insteon and one for Icons.
You could buy a seven year for the Insteon and no upgrades for the Icons.
Due to a bad run or choice of switches. They did extend the warranty.
I believe I have read the Icons are now gone and if you want a replacement Smarthome is sending an Insteon after a $5 upgrade fee. The cost difference between the models was about $5. If memory serves me.

The X10 ones where never included in the offer and I believe they originally where two years.
I can understand the user being upset, but they did get ovet the two years of service.
I had a DOA Insteon right from the box. Buttons

 

[briankelly63]

I'm posting this on every site I can find...

I called SH today. It seems the 7 year warranty is only valid on SOME switches!

Mine were purchased in 2004, they are x10 only predating the ICON and Insteon support. They are NOT covered under the extended warranty. If the microswitches fail (as mine are starting to do) you are screwed. Obviously I'm really pissed off right now. I installed these 2384W switches throughout my house (~25). Three have failed and a couple more are starting to fail.

I'm going to complain on every message board I can find. They have lost a customer for life. Let this be a warning to everyone contemplating buying SmartHome designed products.

Does anyone know where to find replacement microswitch parts?

P.S A thank you to Digger for offering to give me his old switchlincs to use for parts.

look at this link and go about six boxes down to my entry (BKLLC)... You are right to expect that the mechanical portion of an expensive switch last for a LONG time with normal use. SH's microswitch / paddle problems are well know. This is a DESIGN and Qual Ctrl issue! The warranty should have been extended for a long time...

http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12274

 

[briankelly63]

I'm not totally clear on what you are upset about. Did they misrepresent the warranty when you bought your switches? If so, a report to the BBB might be in order. Showing SmartHome your evidence of misrepresentation along with a draft of your letter to the BBB may be enough to change their minds.

Doug

I'd like to know that, too. I'm not saying this is the case here, but many times people get upset when they find they misunderstood something rather than it being misrepresented. I'd also be very careful about spreading your dissatisfaction with a company unless you have proof to back the allegations. There have been successful lawsuits when companies are libeled.

OTOH, if SH did misrepresent the warranty, then Doug has a good idea in contacting the BBB.

Kevin

Smarthome has been dishonest about their switch / paddle issues... the cust ser people always make it sound like they've never heard of the problem your having... The SwitchLinc's I mention in the link above saw all sorts of issues (mechanical & electrical) that SH new about.... Its easy to find people with issues...

http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Co...0/msg00270.html

http://www.wiredathome.com/story.php?title...ducts---garbage

I don't think you'd want to be replacing switches after say 2.5 years? Month after month more switches fail... We all know companies can't take on the liability to insure their products forever but I think they are obligated (if they care about their reputation) to make good on quality and design issues.

 

[sloop]

the first devices i bought were the x10 switchlinc plus - mike at smarthome (long gone) recommended them to me over the 2-way switchlincs because the 2-way eats the signal strength - the cost (as best i recall was 80 or 90 each)

they had the 'paddle problem' too - i never returned them but would periodically order more and replace the failed ones

then came another day to buy more - discontinued

the insteon (not the icons) cost less and i was assured i could use them in x10 mode - so i began converting - to find that with several insteon switches, x10 would not work - so boosterlincs - another $200 down the drain - converted everything to insteon and dumped the $6000 x10 stuff in the garage - bought plc and houselinc

but you need x10 with houselinc to sync the buttons - which cannot work

anyway - the paddle problem caused me to dump my x10 - and surprise! the paddle problem was still in the insteon

the x10 paddle problem was not included in the forced admission by the manufacturer

as for it not being reported, it was - they denied ANY paddle problem for years

i'd also like to point out that the above info was in another post i had on here - but deleted because the people that denied the problem (the manufacturer) were 'sensitive' to criticism

i asked digger to compare the microswitches but he was not sure he could determine if they were the same

as for being pissed - welcome to the dark side - beware the fanbois - they hunt in packs

if you wanna pay for the ups shipping, i can send you some of my x10 craplincs - i mean - switchlincs - they are the x10 switchlinc plus - mostly dimmers but i think some are the relays - i also have a couple of the companion switches - and a couple if the flourescent switches - a few of them probably have the paddle problem so i would need to send several

i also have one of those x10 receivers for fobs - and a bunch of those fobs - too bad there are no insteon fobs - i have some x10 outlets too if you want them (leviton with intellisense! whatever that means) - i have a boosterlinc and dryer plug phase coupler - i have a han2000 (or whatever) i/r receiver that puts out x10 signals on the powerline - hell - i guess you can have the touchlinc controller too - that bad boy was about 500 as best i recall - has the black frame, stand and the single cord solution

i think i have all the boxes and receipts too - if you want the model numbers of the craplincs, lemme know

 

[Digger]

Well I guess someone else found some examples before me. It is pretty much documented that the X-10 switches had the same problems as the Insteon with the paddle issue but not as widespread or just lower volume sales. They carried the problem over to the Insteon and maybe because of higher volume sales it was more visible.

There is just not enough pressure on SH I guess to force them to do the right thing like they had to do with Insteon.

 

[sloop]

I'm posting this on every site I can find...

I'm going to complain on every message board I can find. They have lost a customer for life. Let this be a warning to everyone contemplating buying SmartHome designed products.

i'd recommend posting on the web sites of the retailers that sell their products too - home depot will not post a bad review unless you force them to - after many hours on the phone for several days, they posted mine - they offered me a $75 home depot card if i would withdraw the posts - i told them to keep their card

the insteon web site lists some here

http://www.insteon.net/about-home.html

lampsplus sells them too - they allow all reviews

 

[bbruck]

so boosterlincs - another $200 down the drain - converted everything to insteon and dumped the $6000 x10 stuff in the garage - bought plc and houselinc

Sloop - I had no idea. That's bad, man.