Insteon 3-way dimmer questions

[ChocoboLee]

I'm planning to replace dimmers in my house with Insteon dimmers. My dimmers are wired 3-way, where 2 switches control the same ceiling lights. I currently have these: http://www.lutron.com/Products/StandAloneControls/Dimmers-Switches/MaestroDimmerSwitch/Pages/Overview.aspx

Does anyone know if I can just replace one of the 2 dimmers with Insteon dimmers and be able to control it. Or do I have to replace both dimmers. I assume both, but if I only had to replace one, it would save me some money.

Also, another question I have is after I put in an Insteon switch, is it possible to have that switch control some other device and have another switch somewhere else control the device that used to be controlled by the replaced switch?

 

[apostolakisl]

First off, you will need to have a neutral in both boxes. As long as your electrician didn't put in a "switch loop" you should be OK.

Yes, you will need to replace both switches if you want them both to control that light.

Yes, you can have one of the switches control something else.

If you have hot/neutral/traveler in each box plus load/neutral in either of them, then you can do it anyway you want. One of the two switches will need to control the load (your choice). The other switch can be linked to the load switch recreating your standard 3 way, or, it could be linked to some other Insteon switch controlling some other load.

One of the boxes would have load/neutral. If it turns out you want the switch at the other box to control the load, then splice load wire to the traveler wire and now the traveler wire becomes load at the other box. If you don't care to move the load to the other box, then the traveler wire goes unused.

If the power enters at the light fixture and you have a switch loop to one box and the set of traveler wires between the two boxes, you will have a much harder time. It is possible, but I won't go into it since perhaps you dont need it.

 

[ChocoboLee]

Thanks for the tips. Does one of the switch have to control the load? Let's say I'm installing a normal relay switch. Can I have that switch control another load and have another Insteon switch control this load? Just wondering if I can make everything virtual and switch around which switch controls which light.

 

[wuench]

The switch has to control the load that is wired to it. Additionally it can control other insteon switches with other loads attached to them.

 

[ChocoboLee]

If I install a 3-way dimmer switch and only want 1 of the switches to control the load, can i use a relay switch for the other switch, or does that have to be a dimmer switch also? In the same line of thinking, can a relay switch control a dimmer device? Just wondering what the difference between the relay switch and the dimmer switch. Does it just affect the load that is controlled by the switch, because it looks the same on the outside.

 

[apostolakisl]

Whatever switch is wired to the load determines how the load can be controlled.

In other words, if a dimmer switch is attached, you can dim it/ramp it.
If a relay is attached, it is either on or off.

A relay switch can control a scene. If a dimmer is set as a responder to that scene, then you can set the dimmer to do whatever you want. It does not matter that the switch the triggered the scene can't dim.

For example,
dimmer switch A is attached to the load 1.
relay switch B is attached to load 2.

A scene is created in which switch B is a controller and switch A is a responder. In that scene you programmed switch A to respond with a 5 second ramp up to 50%.

When you turn switch B (the relay) on, switch A will ramp up load 1 over 5 sec to 50%. Load 2 will simply turn straight on.

This is also true vice-versa.

 

[wuench]

It is best to just connect a dimmer to dimmable loads and a relay to loads that are not dimmable (ceiling fans, non-dimmable flourescents, etc). The price is the same, and a dimmer can do everything a relay switch can do and more. That's what I do, I buy dimmers unless the load that will be attached is non-dimmable and for those I buy relays.

 

[gatchel]

Couldn't you use an insteon switch with the sense wire and wire a standard switch to it to control the same load?

 

[apostolakisl]

I don't know why I am having so much trouble with this forum over the last week or so. I can't get the quick response section to work and no quotes.

But to reply to above.

That is not really how the sense relay is meant to work. It is meant to detect something turning on/off that is controlled by some other system and transfer that on/off into the Insteon system as well as turn on its own load.

Wiring like that would not function like a three way. The manual switch on the other side would end up in the wrong position at times. The light could be off, but the manual switch on, requiring the switch to need to be turned off then back on to get the lights on.

 

[gatchel]

Good to know. I misunderstood the functionality. Thanks for clarifying. I guess there is no "cheaper" way to do it.

 

[apostolakisl]

I don't personally think that sense switch offers a lot of added value to the Insteon system, it seems quite unique in available applications. The main interesting feature it has is that the relay isn't hardwired to 120v. It has both contact wires on the relay comming out the back so you can use it to switch a non-120v load if you want. But that has nothing to do with the sense fn.

The thing I see it for is to get in between some automated on/off system's switch and the actual device. Like a pump that has some proprietary controller that you would like to be able to override with Insteon. Run the power from the automated controller to the sense wire and a separte power supply to the relay and then out the relay to the load. The automated controller would still turn the pump on/off if you did nothing, but you could also turn it on/off manually from Insteon over-riding the other system.

Of course the insteon device also broadcasts the fact that the pump turned on/off so you can have it set other insteon devices or send you an email, alter something on your Elk (if you have one), and so forth. But that could all be done with just an inline linc w/sense, no need for the switch.

If anyone has used one of these in some other novel way, I would love to hear it.

 

[jhdale]

If for some reason you really want the light to be independent of all the switches, so you can reassign switches at will, you could put an in-linelinc in the fixture, wire it to bypass the switch (so the in-linelinc always gets power), and then wire both switches with no load.

Not sure it justifies the additional cost of the inlinelinc but there you go.